@UTF8 @Begin @Languages: eng @Participants: JEFF JEFF Speaker, AUD AUD Speaker, MANY MANY Speaker, DAN DAN Speaker @Options: CA, caps, bullets @ID: eng|SBCSAE|JEFF|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|AUD|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MANY|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|DAN|||||Speaker||| @Media: 20, audio @Comment: God's Love @Comment: A segment from a sermon/lecture recorded at a small conference near Chicago, Illinois. The speaker is a pastor in his mid seventies. *JEFF: &=tsk &=in (..) We often meditate 1150_2860 I think 2860_3390 on the love of Christ 3390_4590 and there are many ways to do it 4590_6365 (..) and those who have meditated on the love of Christ 6365_9230 have often done so 9230_10520 in terms of the cross itself 10520_12300 &=in have imagined again and afresh: 12300_15210 (.) uh: 15210_15610 (.) his uh bleeding wounds 15610_17310 uh see him as he died on the cross 17310_19685 &=in &=lengthened but . 19685_21090 *AUD: &=NOSE_BLOW . 21090_22050 *JEFF: (..) wherever we turn . 22050_23605 *JEFF: (.) &=tsk &=in uh in (.) considering the love of Christ . 23605_26845 *JEFF: we turn always to the Gospel records 26845_29265 don't we . 29265_29845 *JEFF: We we turn to the Word of God . 29845_31880 *JEFF: (.) We turn to the real Jesus 31880_33660 as he's described . 33660_34949 *JEFF: &=in &=lengthened (.) And uh 34949_36704 (..) &=in ⌈ There- (.) there ⌉ is where (.) our (.) meditation always centers . 37137_42212 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH &=COUGH ⌋ . 37948_38901 *JEFF: &=ex That (.) we might know him 42212_44437 &=in and uh see: the wonder &=in of his love . 44437_47878 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in And not only hear him as he cries 47878_50809 why have you forsaken me 50809_52379 &=in but uh 52379_53785 see him also 53785_54871 in his (.) seeking love 54871_56475 &=in as the risen Lord . 56475_58258 *JEFF: (..) &=in Uh see him uh 59253_61291 (..) with that fish breakfast &=ex 61291_63105 by the Lake of Galilee . 63105_64866 *JEFF: (..) &=in &=SWALLOW (..) Broiling fish . 65445_68973 *JEFF: (..) &=in Don't you like that ? 69804_71153 *JEFF: (..) &=in You know he had that uh 72262_73755 &=laugh &=in (.) he had that breakfast all cooking . 73755_76148 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=in (.) While the disciples were still out in the boat . 76148_79768 *JEFF: &=laugh (..) And then uh 79768_82161 (.) of course he has a special interview with Peter . 82161_84634 *JEFF: (..) Not the first time he'd seen him 85160_86784 he made a special resurrection appearance 86784_88914 uh (.) to Peter . 88914_89634 *JEFF: (..) &=in But uh 90099_91116 there in the morning 91116_92114 early morning 92114_93025 in the Lake of Galilee . 93025_94412 *JEFF: (..) And there are cocks crowing in the distance . 95163_97358 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in And Jesus says to Peter 98196_100863 (..) &=in do you love me 100863_102304 more than these ? 102304_103390 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk Simon 104518_105630 (.) son of Jonah 105630_106495 (.) do you love me 106495_107311 (.) more than these . 107311_108195 *JEFF: &=in (..) Three times the question . 108195_110904 *AUD: &=THROAT . 110904_111769 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in Because 112158_113221 you see 113221_113872 (..) &=in as uh (..) &{l=@ we were saying a bit ago &}l=@ 114097_116749 (.) the love and the service go together . 116749_118807 *JEFF: Don't they . 118807_119321 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in &=lengthened If Peter is to be restored in service 119321_122796 (..) he has to be restored in love . 122796_124629 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in And when (.) Peter says 125403_127354 uh 127354_127628 I love you 127628_128474 then Jesus says 128474_130071 (.) uh 130071_130429 (..) feed my sheep 130917_132022 (.) tend my lambs 132022_133157 (.) care for my little ones . 133157_134521 *JEFF: (..) We +/. 137086_137516 *JEFF: (.) we can't love others 137516_139067 (.) in the name of Christ 139067_140508 (..) unless (.) the love for others is a (.) overflow 141133_144699 (.) of our love (.) for the Lord himself . 144699_146871 *JEFF: (..) The people that we're called to love 149138_150941 are (.) unfortunately 150941_152602 (.) &=in (.) not 152785_153837 (.) uh 153837_154256 (.) warrantably lovable . 154256_156165 *JEFF: (..) &=in &=ex ʔuh We uh 156839_159408 &=ex &=in &=ex (.) &=in ʔuh The source of our love 159408_162300 (.) is (.) not how appealing they are [% laugh] 162300_164948 (..) although 166484_167132 we can praise God for his image in them 167132_169345 and rejoice in the many &{l=SM evidences of God's common grace in their lives &}l=SM 169345_173503 (.) but 173503_173796 &=in nevertheless 173796_175027 (..) uh basically 175358_176410 the (.) the fountain of our love 176410_178045 &=in i- is uh 178045_179565 (.) the seeking love of the savior . 179565_181421 *JEFF: (..) &=in The self-denying love . 182008_184176 *JEFF: (..) That is uh willing to serve (.) in his name . 184176_186900 *JEFF: (.) &=in Do you love me . 186900_188402 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in (..) You know 189248_191538 ʔuh: Jesus didn't ask Peter those questions 191538_194552 (..) to (..) undercut (.) his (.) love 194845_198096 (..) or his faith . 198172_199391 *JEFF: (..) &=in He asked those questions (.) to establish it . 199391_203164 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in And uh Jesus does the same with you 204154_206570 my friend &=ex 206570_207923 (..) he does the same . 207923_208761 *JEFF: (..) He does ask you 210693_211653 this morning 211653_212454 (.) do you love me . 212454_213528 *JEFF: (.) Do you really love me . 213528_214949 *JEFF: (..) But he asks it 217102_218398 (.) in order that you'll be able to say at last with Peter 218398_221431 Lord 221431_221824 (.) you know: everything [% laugh] . 221824_223401 *JEFF: &=in &{l=@ You know my heart . 223401_225116 *JEFF: &=in (.) And Lord you know that in spite of everything &}l=@ 225116_227772 &=in yes (.) Lord I do love you . 227772_229772 *JEFF: (..) &=in &=lengthened Well 230809_232687 (..) the saving love of uh (.) the Father 232687_235023 &=ex and the Son 235023_236107 (.) is also the saving love of the Spirit . 236107_238432 *JEFF: (.) and that's why I read that section from Romans eight . 238432_241022 *JEFF: (..) &=in Uh you see 241332_242335 God's (.) love (.) is (.) is present (.) in the Spirit . 242335_246293 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in (..) &=tsk &=in ʔuh There there's a wonderful theology of the Spirit 246849_251810 in uh 251810_252604 (.) in the Scriptures . 252604_253962 *JEFF: ʔuh ʔuh Especially of course in the New Testament 253962_256256 (.) &=in Um 256256_257328 (.) &=tsk &=in Bultmann 257328_259047 in his uh commentary on uh Romans eight 259047_262403 (..) uh 262589_263346 ʔuh talks about 263346_264331 uh 264331_264650 the two ways (.) in which the Spirit (.) i- is spoken of . 264650_268636 *JEFF: (..) &=in And uh 268636_270172 ʔuh he unfortunately uses anthropological terms to describe it 270172_275069 &=in uh 275069_275763 he talks about uh 275763_277368 &=in the the the Spirit in uh 277368_279821 &=in the sense of mana 279821_281800 (.) as in uh &=in animism 281800_284016 where the spirit 284016_284868 (.) you have a spirit of of a tree 284868_286551 or a (.) a stone 286551_288206 or something like that 288206_289159 &=in and then you have the more personal concept of the Spirit . 289159_292925 *JEFF: uh &=in uh 292925_293910 both an impersonal and a personal concept of the Spirit . 293910_297412 *JEFF: &=in Now 297412_298429 (.) I d- I don't care for his analogy 298429_300905 but uh the point is well taken . 300905_302975 *JEFF: (.) &=in Uh 302975_303750 the point is that Paul does speak of the Spirit 303750_306791 both as possessor 306791_308264 &=in and as possessed . 308264_309860 *JEFF: (..) &=in You see 309860_311018 the Spirit possesses us . 311018_312938 *JEFF: (.) &=in Uh 312938_313686 as Christians 313686_314639 (.) we are not demon possessed 314639_316581 (.) we are Holy Spirit possessed . 316581_319053 *JEFF: (.) &=in And uh 319053_320316 (.) &=in Holy Spirit possession 320316_322404 &=in has a (.) close relationship to demon possession . 322404_326189 *JEFF: (.) &=in uh 326189_327123 the close relationship is what makes it so different . 327123_330292 *JEFF: (.) &=in ʔuh You see 330292_331797 uh demon possession is always destructive 331797_335039 &=in because uh Satan can't create . 335039_337583 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in And the demon-possessed man in Gadare ? 337583_341012 *JEFF: Remember ? 341012_341710 *JEFF: &=ex &=in uh he couldn't even give his na:me . 341710_343958 *JEFF: When Jesus asked him what his name was . 343958_346251 *JEFF: &=ex &=in Uh he- +/. 346251_347528 *JEFF: His personality was destroyed . 347528_349502 *JEFF: You know how C S Lewis has done that in his uh 349502_351946 &=in uh adult novels . 351946_353519 *JEFF: Uh 353519_353775 &=in uh but uh 353775_354979 there it is . 354979_355863 *JEFF: ʔuh: S- ʔuh demon possession is personality destructive . 355863_360031 *JEFF: It depersonalizes 360031_361754 because uh &=in Satan can only corrode 361754_364486 he can't create . 364486_365603 *JEFF: He can only destroy . 365603_366861 *JEFF: (.) &=in But 366861_367682 Holy Spirit &{n=POUND pos &=nonvocal session 367682_369748 is no less &=nonvocal real &=nonvocal possession 369748_371763 &=in only 371763_372844 it has the &=nonvocal op &=nonvocal posite effect . 372844_374681 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh (.) &=in The Holy &=nonvocal Spirit 374681_376824 you see 376824_377339 is the cre &=nonvocal ator &=nonvocal Spirit 377339_378748 who brought uh &=nonvocal order &=nonvocal out &}n=POUND of chaos 378748_380878 the Holy Spirit is the one who orders 380878_383322 &=in the Holy Spirit is the one who frees 383322_386131 uh liberates 386131_387161 &=in uh the- +/. 387161_388143 *JEFF: &=in uh the- the- the- Gadarene demoniac thought he was free 388143_392196 because nobody could tie him up 392196_393772 ⌈ you see . 393772_394276 *AUD: ⌊ &=THROAT ⌋ . 394420_394805 *JEFF: he could go ⌉ anywhere 394276_395443 do anything 395443_396337 uh absolute freedom . 396337_397769 *JEFF: Right ? 397769_398227 *JEFF: &=in ʔuh: and he could treat people +/. 398227_400717 *JEFF: he hi- he didn't have to dress any particular way 400717_403377 (.) no dress code 403377_404319 &=in and so he stripped it all off . 404319_406140 *JEFF: And the he uh 406140_407184 &=in he could uh d- treat people any way he wanted to 407184_409947 so whenever they came by 409947_411243 he beat them up . 411243_411987 *JEFF: (.) And ⌈ uh . 411987_412669 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH &=COUGH ⌋ . 412301_413181 *JEFF: &=in ʔuh ⌉ and uh then 412669_414013 if there was nobody handy to beat up 414013_415726 he picked up a stone 415726_416872 and uh tore his own flesh apart . 416872_418850 *JEFF: &=in &=laugh &=laugh There's demonic liberty . 418850_420910 *JEFF: &=ex &=in But uh 420910_422486 Holy Spirit liberty: doesn't work that way . 422486_425086 *JEFF: See [% laugh] . 425086_425447 *JEFF: &=in Uh 425447_426450 (.) uh now ʔuh um 426450_427767 (.) you'll accuse me of thinking uh of Holy Spirit liberty 427767_431069 in too strictly Presbyterian terms 431069_433443 (.) because ⌈ uh . 433443_434227 *AUD: ⌊ &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh ⌋ . 433832_434596 *JEFF: &=in ⌋ I remind you 434227_435490 that that man 435490_436465 once he was delivered 436465_437850 was seated clothed 437850_439010 and in his right mind . 439010_440327 *MANY: ⌈ &=LAUGHTER ⌉ . 440190_446432 *JEFF: ⌊ Uh and (..) &=THROAT &=SNIFF (..) &=THROAT &=in &=in ʔuh ⌋ 440190_446200 &=in And we'll pass over other uh uh Scriptural ac⌈2counts ⌉2 . 446200_450007 *AUD: ⌊2 &=COUGH ⌋2 . 449332_449960 *JEFF: like the lame man healed 450007_451481 by the Beautiful Gate at the temple 451481_453180 who went in leaping and dancing and praising the Lord . 453180_456093 *MANY: ⌈ &=LAUGHTER ⌉ . 456093_459886 *JEFF: ⌊ See that 456093_456591 &=in uh that's a little different 456591_458228 but &=laugh &=laugh &=COUGH (.) &=COUGH &=COUGh ⌋ 458228_460507 &=in But uh ʔuh: you Presbyterians want to do everything decently and in order . 460507_464839 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=in Uh but 464839_465903 but the Holy Spirit 465903_467008 remember 467008_467574 is the spirit of both . 467574_468864 *JEFF: (.) Right ? 468864_469471 *JEFF: He's the spirit of order 469471_471027 he's the spirit of ardor . 471027_472343 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in And- and the Holy Spirit 472343_474697 uh uh ʔuhʔuh is the one 474697_476450 (.) &=in uh who has uh 476450_478006 (..) &=in ordered our lives . 478006_479479 *JEFF: And as he possesses us . 479479_481083 *JEFF: He orders us . 481083_482215 *JEFF: And he gives us the order of love . 482215_485155 *JEFF: (..) If you love me 485954_487147 Jesus said 487147_487993 keep my commandments . 487993_489406 *JEFF: Uh I (.) wanna say a little bit more about that in a moment . 489406_491834 *JEFF: &=in The obedience of love . 491834_493342 *JEFF: &=in But the Holy Spirit is the one who orders our lives 493342_496787 (..) &=in uh 496787_497545 controls our lives 497545_499543 (.) is in possession of our lives 499543_501611 &=in but the Holy Spirit's also given to us 501611_504387 see 504387_504578 he's not only &=in the possessor 504578_507055 &=in he's also the one (.) who is possessed . 507055_509975 *JEFF: (.) We possess him . 509975_511237 *JEFF: (.) &=in He dwells in our hearts . 511237_513358 *JEFF: &=in Uh 513358_513836 we have not only the gifts of the Spirit 513836_516347 in the plural 516347_517104 &=in but we have the gift of the Spirit 517104_519164 (.) We have the Holy Spirit himself 519164_520999 given to us . 520999_521845 *JEFF: (.) The promise of the Father . 521845_523285 *JEFF: (.) &=in Uh they- the disciples were to wait 523285_525557 (.) until that great promise was given 525557_528019 the gift of the Holy Spirit . 528019_529432 *JEFF: (.) &=in And so (.) the Holy Spirit given to us 529432_532836 &=in uh f- +/. 532836_533859 *JEFF: works in us . 533859_535210 *JEFF: Uh 535210_535599 (.) &=in that (..) sense of the presence of God's love . 535599_538969 *JEFF: &=in And that's why uh Paul says 538969_540840 in Romans five 540840_541975 (.) that God &=in pours out his love in our hearts . 541975_545510 *JEFF: (.) &=in By the Holy Spirit . 545510_547170 *JEFF: (.) &=in Now 547170_548180 ʔuh there 548180_548800 the love that's poured out 548800_550345 (.) does not describe &=in the love that we have for Go:d 550345_553750 although that is the fruit of the Spirit you know 553750_556325 (.) love joy peace (.) so on ? 556325_557905 *JEFF: &=in Uh 557905_558705 but ʔuh in that passage 558705_559935 in Romans five 559935_560765 Paul isn't talking about &=in uh 560765_562710 the gift of love that we have for God 562710_565050 &=in he's talking about the gift of love that God has for us . 565050_568385 *JEFF: (.) &=in Because he goes on to describe that love of God . 568385_571225 *JEFF: (.) God commends his love toward us 571225_573115 in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us . 573115_575290 *JEFF: (.) &=in So it's God's love for us 575290_577315 that's poured out in our hearts 577315_578870 by the Holy Spirit given to us . 578870_580585 *JEFF: (.) &=in ʔuh Which is uh 580585_582475 (..) &=tsk &=in again . 582475_583465 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in uh 583465_584335 (.) a wonderful (.) reality . 584505_586585 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk (.) &=in Because 587290_588630 (.) if God didn't do that 588630_590190 (..) uh 590505_590840 &{l=@ we wouldn't have a love for God &}l=@ . 590840_592485 *JEFF: (..) There's no (.) spring of that divine love within us . 593250_596710 *JEFF: (.) &=in It comes from him . 596710_598490 *JEFF: (..) And it does come from him 598490_600035 and he does give it . 600035_601070 *JEFF: (.) &=in &=lengthened (.) And so the Spirit is the spirit of &=ex uh adoption . 601460_606580 *JEFF: The spirit of sonship . 606580_608275 *JEFF: (..) &=in Now 608275_609045 to be the spirit of sonship 609045_610640 he has to be also the spirit of fatherhood 610640_612870 right ? 612870_613330 *JEFF: &=ex &=in (..) &=in Uh to make us &{n=POUND a &=nonvocal ware &}n=POUND 613330_615545 that we are children of God 615545_617050 &=in uh we have to know 617050_618695 (.) that he is our father . 618695_619865 *JEFF: And so 619865_620395 &=in it is the love of God 620395_622005 made real to our hearts 622005_623545 (.) the knowledge that he does love us 623545_625340 (.) that he is present with us 625340_626875 &=in that uh (.) becomes of course then the source 626875_630245 &=in of our (.) uh (.) love toward him . 630245_632470 *JEFF: (.) &=in Um 632720_633780 (..) &=tsk &=in uh ⌈ friends ⌉ . 634395_635440 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH ⌋ . 634910_635445 *JEFF: uh 635440_635800 (.) &=in there's +/. 635800_636800 *JEFF: (.) there's nothing more important . 636800_638530 *JEFF: (..) For the whole balance 638530_640200 and stability 640200_641165 and progress 641165_641995 and growth 641995_642615 of our Christian lives . 642615_644100 *JEFF: (..) &=in Than 644100_645220 (.) ʔuh to realize 645220_646625 again 646625_647320 and again 647320_647975 and again 647975_648675 &=in the uh 648675_649760 (.) the wonder 649760_650600 (.) of our union with Jesus Christ . 650600_652785 *JEFF: (.) Through the Spirit . 652785_653975 *JEFF: (..) Because it's in Jesus Christ that we are united to the Father 654340_658045 (.) &=in and it is by the Spirit that Christ is present in our hearts 658045_661935 &=in and it's by the Spirit that the Father is present in our hearts . 661935_665095 *JEFF: &=in (.) Two aspects (.) of union with Christ 665095_667760 i- I think you all know this theology 667760_669955 but it always pays &{l=X to &}l=X (.) think about it again . 669955_672310 *JEFF: (.) &=in The representative union 672310_674445 (.) the vital union . 674445_675630 *JEFF: (.) &=in The representative union . 676015_677670 *JEFF: (..) &=in The basis of our salvation . 678240_680565 *JEFF: (.) &=in When Christ died 680765_682430 (..) we died &=ex . 682590_684040 *JEFF: (..) &=in Because he died for us . 684040_686155 *JEFF: (..) He died as our representative 686675_688370 he died in our place 688370_689615 (.) &=in uh he died as uh 689615_691715 &=in uh the one 691715_693105 &=in uh ʔuh who bore our sins . 693105_695840 *JEFF: (.) In his own body 695840_696890 &=in on the tree . 696890_697975 *JEFF: (..) So he was our representative . 699210_701035 *JEFF: (.) Right ? 701035_701675 *JEFF: (..) &=in And he represented us 702090_703850 not only as Paul teaches 703850_705260 (.) not only when he died for us 705260_706800 but when he rose for us . 706800_708085 *JEFF: (..) &=in And then he ascended 708315_710080 into the heavenly places 710080_711530 and where he is 711530_712305 we are . 712305_712960 *JEFF: (.) &=in And that's why Paul says in Ephesians 712960_714985 that we are in the heavenly places 714985_716610 in Christ Jesus . 716610_717935 *JEFF: (.) Why . 717935_718335 *JEFF: &=in Representatively . 718335_719930 *JEFF: (.) Where he is 719930_720615 (.) we are . 720615_721195 *JEFF: (..) &=in Now 721860_722985 (.) that's a tremendously 722985_724595 (.) important of course 724595_725980 foundational 725980_727055 life-transforming truth . 727055_729010 *JEFF: (..) &=in It's happened &=ex . 729185_731325 *JEFF: (..) See &=ex 731325_731890 &=in you a:re a a new creature in Christ 731890_734025 because you're united to him . 734025_735555 *JEFF: (..) &=in You ha:ve triumphed over sin and death . 735555_738535 *JEFF: &=in You ha:ve died to sin . 738535_740155 *JEFF: &=in And Paul's (.) reasoning about how we ought to live 740155_743585 ⌈ is ⌉ always grounded in that . 743585_745270 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH ⌋ . 743445_743700 *JEFF: &=in Uh you know 745270_746105 in Colossians . 746105_747205 *JEFF: Uh 747205_747390 &=in it's because 747390_748860 &=in Christ rose 748860_750645 (.) that we are to seek the things which are above . 750645_753460 *JEFF: (.) (.) You are risen with Christ . 753460_755005 *JEFF: Seek the things which are above . 755005_756625 *JEFF: (.) &=in Because you died with Christ 756625_758710 therefore mortify (.) sin in your members . 758710_761730 *JEFF: &=in Put to death sin 761730_763075 because it has died . 763075_764495 *JEFF: &=in In other words 764495_765870 the imperative is always grounded in the indicative . 765870_768975 *JEFF: (.) Because of what Christ did for us 768975_771470 (.) therefore 771470_772510 &=in uh we live out of the fact 772510_775015 the reality 775015_776035 the accomplishment 776035_777195 &=in of his perfect work . 777195_778825 *JEFF: &=in And don't forget 778825_780285 (.) Jesus not only paid the price of your sins 780285_783155 &=in but remember that he lived a perfect life for you &=ex . 783155_786740 *JEFF: &=in That the white robe of righteousness 786740_789120 that you wear in that last day 789120_790845 is the robe of Christ's righteousness . 790845_792835 *JEFF: So 792835_793075 &=in it's all that Christ &{l=MRC did for you &}l=MRC . 793075_795795 *JEFF: ʔuh: &=in uh ʔuh Jesus was baptized for you &=ex . 795795_800230 *JEFF: &=in Uh let it be done to fill all righteousness . 800230_803170 *JEFF: (.) The righteousness he had to fill for you . 803170_805325 *JEFF: (.) See he he did it all for you . 805325_807100 *JEFF: &=in &=lengthened But then of course the other side of it is 807100_809745 it's not only representative 809745_811655 it's also vital . 811655_812990 *JEFF: (.) Jesus Christ is the vine 812990_814755 &=in and we are the branches . 814755_816365 *JEFF: Y- we're united to him . 816365_817700 *JEFF: Our life is drawn from Christ . 817700_819865 *JEFF: There is the uh 819865_820925 &=in uh not only the &=in the the legal uh aspect of that which Christ did for us 820925_827815 as our representative 827815_829235 &=in there is the vital aspect 829235_831365 of what Christ does in us 831365_833270 (.) as he lives in us 833270_834560 and dwells in us 834560_835730 and has fellowship with us 835730_837280 and &=in and we walk with him . 837280_839195 *JEFF: &=in Uh 839195_839840 &=in uh every +/. 839840_840845 *JEFF: &=in uh y- y- you know 840845_841970 i- ʔuhʔuhʔuh it's uh 841970_843475 &=in it's been long fashionable in theological circles to uh 843475_847765 (..) sniff at the hymn 848430_849750 &=in uh I walked in the garden alone 849750_851910 while the dew was still on the roses 851910_853860 you know 853860_854395 uh all this uh romantic business 854395_856665 and uh 856665_857050 &=in and not a shred of theology in the whole hymn 857050_859675 and yet everybody (.) perversely seems to love it . 859675_862410 *JEFF: &=in Uh well uh: [% laugh] 862410_863920 &=in uh: [% laugh] 863920_864730 &=in I I I think 864730_865970 I think the reason it's so loved 865970_868455 in spite of its uh 868455_869905 &=in uh uh theological vacuity 869905_872835 &=in ⌈ uh is that it's uh ⌉ experientially . 872905_876565 *MANY: ⌊ &=LAUGHTER ⌋ . 873135_875105 *JEFF: uh ʔuhʔuh pretty much on target . 876565_878735 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh 878735_880130 We've all known those uh precious times of uh &=in of genuine fellowship with the Lord 880130_885610 &=in that uh 885610_886475 &=in ʔuh that- ʔuh +/. 886475_887860 *JEFF: we can describe only with great difficulty . 887860_890525 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in And uh 890525_892115 it's true 892115_893090 you see 893090_893635 uh 893635_893945 we are vitally united to Jesus Christ . 893945_896565 *JEFF: Uh we do know him 896565_897775 &=in and the knowledge that we have of him 897775_900165 &=in is the knowledge of love . 900165_901675 *JEFF: ʔuh We just simply (.) love him . 901675_903650 *JEFF: (..) &=in Uh 903880_904870 (.) &=in we uh 904870_906335 ʔuh &=tsk &=in ow the mystics 906335_908130 the Christian myth- mystics 908130_909605 l- love to talk about ʔuh &=ex +/. 909605_911885 *JEFF: (..) &=in we've got some kind of time constraint here 912145_914565 what ʔuh ⌈ uh uh what- +... 914565_915925 *MANY: ⌊ &=LAUGHTER ⌋ . 914895_917645 *JEFF: w- &=in w- w- when do we ⌉ . 915925_917675 *DAN: ⌈2 I think ⌉2 . 917785_918125 *JEFF: ⌊2 When ⌋2 +... 917675_918190 *DAN: I think we're done when you are . 918125_919350 *DAN: ⌈ so &=laugh &=laugh ⌉ . 919350_919880 *JEFF: ⌊ &=in well ⌋ 919730_920365 I ⌈2 I gotta be ⌉2 +... 920365_921245 *DAN: ⌊2 finish ⌋2 what you have ⌈3 &{l=X to say &}l=X ⌉3 . 920940_922440 *JEFF: ⌊3 I I well ⌋3 +/. 921245_922260 *JEFF: I'll I yeah . 922260_922995 *JEFF: Let me try to finish &{l=@ what I'm talking about here but 922995_925190 &=in but uh &}l=@ 925190_926060 &=in &{l=SM there- there- +/. 926060_926985 *JEFF: I don't often get chance 926985_928500 (.) to talk to types like you &}l=SM 928500_930165 &{l=@ you know ⌈ it's wonderful &}l=@ . 930165_931615 *MANY: ⌊ &=LAUGHTER ⌋ &=lengthened . 930165_933870 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in &=laugh &=laugh &=in ⌉ 931615_933100 uh it's particularly wonderful 933100_934700 cause I know you know everything I'm saying anyway [% laugh] s so [% laugh] 934700_937475 you can smile affirmatively 937475_939200 and that encourages me 939200_940110 that's great . 940110_940550 *JEFF: ⌈ uh but &=throat ⌉ +... 940550_941750 *MANY: ⌊ &=LAUGHTER ⌋ &=lengthened . 940920_942770 *JEFF: But uh 942770_943310 &=in but 943310_943955 ʔuh: really 943955_944860 the- the- that uh 944860_945975 you know the Christian mystics (.) talked about climbing Jacob's ladder . 945975_949220 *JEFF: And uh 949220_949690 &=in uh you you you'd (.) come up the ladder 949690_952170 and when you get at the top 952170_953290 you fling yourself down 953290_954810 (.) at the very gate of heaven . 954810_956360 *JEFF: (.) And maybe uh 956360_957375 &=in maybe the gate will open . 957375_959135 *JEFF: Y- you can't (.) control it 959135_960685 you don't know when it will open 960685_962135 (.) but maybe it will open . 962135_963370 *JEFF: &=in And when it opens 963370_964775 then 964775_965230 uh it's uh 965230_966280 &=in light (.) bursting in your inner heart . 966280_968840 *JEFF: &=ex &=in And uh 968840_970130 &=in once you've had that experience 970130_971810 you'd (.) give anything to have the experience repeated . 971810_974420 *JEFF: And so uh 974420_975255 &=in you go through any amount of discipline 975255_977740 and uh 977740_978375 try out different forms of discipline 978375_980570 and uh 980570_981065 &=in you recite the Jesus prayer thousands of times with the monks of Mount Athos 981065_985755 and uh 985755_986130 &=in and uh 986130_986945 sooner or later 986945_988000 uh you think it may happen . 988000_989510 *JEFF: Uh the uh 989510_990265 you you may gain that experience . 990265_992310 *JEFF: &=in &=lengthened (.) Well now uh 992560_994030 you know 994030_994560 there are experiences of ecstasy 994560_996755 tha- uh 996755_997320 that can be induced by a transformation of consciousness 997320_1000685 &=in and uh 1000685_1001505 I think Christians sometimes have uh 1001505_1003765 &=in uh mingled that uh psychological experience 1003765_1007070 uh 1007070_1007320 &=in whether it's the left (.) part or 1007320_1009240 or the right part of the brain taking over 1009240_1011380 (.) or something 1011380_1012000 ʔuh &=in I don't think um 1012000_1014245 uh 1014245_1014900 &=in the um 1014900_1015925 (.) the psychologists are as sure as they once were 1015925_1018535 or even the neurologists about how some of those things happen 1018535_1021510 (.) but uh 1021510_1022045 &=in uh at any rate 1022045_1023310 &=in uh 1023310_1023920 ʔuh: you ⌈ see . 1023920_1024735 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH ⌋ . 1024440_1025030 *JEFF: ʔuh⌉: it isn't that we have to climb the ladder . 1024735_1027720 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=in &=laugh &=in And uh 1027720_1030090 I'm [% laugh] I'm [% laugh] sorry that that whole &=in episode with Jacob got misunderstood . 1030090_1034660 *JEFF: &=in All because uh 1034660_1036265 &=in all because of the Hebrew preposition al . 1036265_1039055 *JEFF: (.) That uh 1039055_1039685 wasn't taken account of . 1039685_1041440 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=in Uh that see 1041440_1043090 &=in uh 1043090_1043460 he he stood (.) uh (.) upon 1043460_1046355 (..) not it . 1046695_1047705 *JEFF: (..) ee 1047705_1048280 he ʔuh Jacob st- saw the stairway 1048280_1050365 not a painter's ladder of course 1050365_1051785 but a 1051785_1052075 &=in a tower of Babel type of thing 1052075_1054305 a uh 1054305_1054785 &=in a zigarot . 1054785_1055805 *JEFF: (.) r- right ? 1055805_1056460 *JEFF: You got a zigarot and 1056460_1057465 &=laugh &=laugh &=in which was made for the gods to touch down at the top 1057465_1061050 and then they could come down uh 1061050_1062495 to the bottom . 1062495_1063050 *JEFF: You know it was like a little heliport for the gods there . 1063050_1065205 *JEFF: That ⌈ was he idea . 1065205_1066030 *MANY: ⌊ &=LAUGHTER ⌋ . 1065330_1068590 *JEFF: But but uh 1066305_1067060 th- they they'd come down 1067120_1068270 there'd be a ⌉ temple at the bottom 1068270_1069725 and then uh &=in the god could be with the people . 1069725_1071755 *JEFF: &=in ⌈ But uh . 1071755_1072670 *AUD: ⌊ &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh ⌋ . 1072040_1073860 *JEFF: &=in uh but it it ⌋ wasn't that that God +/. 1072670_1075235 *JEFF: that (.) that uh Jacob saw God at the top of the ladder 1075235_1078465 up in Heaven 1078465_1079300 &=in uh God stood &=in uh upon him . 1079300_1082490 *JEFF: (..) &=in Uh the the masculine uh there 1082880_1085710 the uh 1085710_1086345 &=in v- v- v- vowel with the little dot &{l=@ over it 1086345_1089730 you know the &}l=@ &=in the the holem ? 1089730_1091550 *JEFF: &=in Uh he he he's uh 1091550_1093140 ʔuh uh he stood upon hi:m . 1093140_1095115 *JEFF: &=in uh 1095115_1095730 which is the common Hebrew expression 1095730_1097760 &=in and you know that's what it is 1097760_1099460 because the second time when God appeared to b- ʔuhʔuh uh uh j- Jacob at Bethel 1099460_1103625 &=in uh 1103625_1104390 the same expression is used . 1104390_1105855 *JEFF: He went up from upon him . 1105855_1107865 *JEFF: (.) See ? 1107865_1108225 *JEFF: Uh 1108225_1108460 it's the same expression . 1108460_1109780 *JEFF: &=in So 1109780_1110560 God had come down the ladder . 1110560_1112315 *JEFF: &{l=@ That's what we miss &}l=@ . 1112315_1113455 *JEFF: &=in He wasn't standing up there at the top 1113455_1115575 &=in uh he came down the ladder . 1115575_1117615 *JEFF: &=in And uh ʔuh when he came down the ladder 1117615_1120060 he stood over Jacob 1120060_1121500 and revealed himself to Jacob . 1121500_1123205 *JEFF: &=in And that's why Jacob said 1123205_1124885 this is the house of God 1124885_1126690 (.) this is the gate of Heaven . 1126690_1128180 *JEFF: &=in It was the House of God 1128180_1129805 he said 1129805_1130290 because God was in this place 1130290_1132300 and I didn't know it . 1132300_1133520 *JEFF: (.) &=in See 1133520_1134425 &=laugh &=in &=laugh &=in it- it's 1134425_1135845 this is Bethel here 1135845_1137515 because here God has come to us . 1137515_1139390 *JEFF: &=in So God was revealing himself to Jacob 1139390_1142215 &=in and God reveals himself to us . 1142215_1144510 *JEFF: He comes to us . 1144510_1145705 *JEFF: &=in And uh 1145705_1146625 &=in he seeks us . 1146625_1148330 *JEFF: (.) As we seek him . 1148330_1149470 *JEFF: (.) &=in And our love is always in response to his love . 1149470_1153015 *JEFF: &=in And it's the assurance that your God loves you . 1153015_1156650 *JEFF: (.) that he seeks you . 1156650_1157850 *JEFF: (.) that he's with you . 1157850_1158835 *JEFF: That he comes to you . 1158835_1159990 *JEFF: &=in It's this assurance 1159990_1161670 that draws you &=in to repentance 1161670_1164390 and draws you to faith 1164390_1165750 and draws you to himself . 1165750_1167420 *JEFF: &=in Um 1167420_1168330 &=in the uh 1168330_1169480 (.) &=in ʔuh 1169480_1170110 salvation is of the Lord . 1170310_1171900 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in And uh 1171900_1173255 it's the Lord's love 1173255_1174805 &=in who quickens your love . 1174805_1176645 *JEFF: &=in Well 1176645_1177470 (..) &=tsk I'm not going to say 1178225_1179750 uh (.) th- the rest of the things I (.) I had in mind to say 1179750_1183640 &=in But 1183640_1184510 uh I 1184510_1185330 ʔuh you can fill out the talk for me 1185330_1188095 (.) would you please sometime . 1188095_1189485 *JEFF: (.) &=in the &=in the commitment of love 1189485_1191955 the obedience of love . 1191955_1193250 *JEFF: If you love me keep my commandments . 1193250_1195445 *JEFF: &=ex &=in Um 1195445_1197090 &=in ʔuh (.) remember 1197090_1198525 uh Mary's adoration 1198525_1200510 (.) Uh when she uh (.) brought the spikenard 1200510_1203110 and uh 1203110_1203420 opened it and poured it out on the feet of Jesus 1203420_1205605 just before he went to the cross ? 1205605_1207380 *JEFF: &=in And Judas criticized her remember 1207380_1209965 (.) &=in Uh because 1209965_1211265 he said 1211265_1211675 this could have been given to the poor 1211675_1213455 &=in uh 1213455_1214240 he- he- he was the first old-fashioned liberal . 1214240_1216585 *JEFF: &=ex Don't worship Jesus 1216585_1218405 but help the poor . 1218405_1219460 *JEFF: (.) &=in Uh 1219460_1220500 but uh . 1220500_1221185 *MANY: ⌈ &=LAUGHTER ⌉ . 1221185_1225900 *JEFF: ⌊ &=in Uh y- you see 1221185_1222830 uh 1222830_1223265 &=in &=ex uh 1223265_1224175 w- what- what was the answer ⌋ . 1224175_1225945 *JEFF: What was the answer that Jesus uh gave . 1225945_1228610 *JEFF: Uh 1228610_1228980 &=in uh 1228980_1229740 n- let her do this . 1229740_1231270 *JEFF: Let her keep it . 1231270_1232095 *JEFF: Not in the sense of preserving the ointment 1232095_1234080 she was pouring it out 1234080_1235315 (.) but in the sense of observing it . 1235315_1237070 *JEFF: &=in Observing a a an observance against his burial . 1237070_1240730 *JEFF: &=in Uh so 1240795_1241700 she realized what his death meant 1241700_1243610 &=in and she realized who he was . 1243610_1245710 *JEFF: &=in He said the poor you have with you always 1245710_1247940 but me 1247940_1248495 &=in you have not always . 1248495_1249835 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in A tremendous assurance of his own deity . 1249835_1253440 *JEFF: Who else could say something like that . 1253440_1255135 *JEFF: Hunh ? 1255135_1255415 *JEFF: &=laugh &=in But Jesus said it 1255415_1257045 &=in and uh 1257045_1258040 (..) uh you see what that says to us . 1258475_1260520 *JEFF: &=ex (..) &=tsk &=in Uh 1260520_1262930 (..) if our Lord were here 1263470_1264955 (.) then we could pour out perfume on his feet . 1264955_1267210 *JEFF: (.) &=in He's not here . 1267345_1269230 *JEFF: (..) But who is . 1269500_1270430 *JEFF: (.) &=in The poor (.) you have with you always &=ex . 1270430_1273410 *JEFF: (..) &=in So whose feet can we anoint . 1273770_1276065 *JEFF: &=ex The feet of the poor 1276065_1277990 (.) in his name . 1277990_1278785 *JEFF: (..) See . 1278955_1279320 *JEFF: (..) &=in Uh 1279320_1280695 (..) love (.) uh uh doesn't mean 1281230_1283595 &=ex &=in ʔuh: (..) ʔuh ʔuh climbing up (.) Jacob's ladder (.) ʔuh to the heavenlies 1283595_1289685 ʔuh (..) where nobody else can be around . 1289685_1292195 *JEFF: &=laugh &=laugh &=in The love of God is experienced in the community of the saints 1292195_1297035 (..) it's experienced as we all reached out . 1297125_1299520 *JEFF: (.) reach out . 1299520_1300135 *JEFF: to the breadth 1300135_1300875 and the length 1300875_1301615 and the height 1301615_1302100 and the depth 1302100_1302865 &=in and the love of God is experienced 1303155_1305480 &=in in the course of service . 1305480_1307430 *JEFF: (..) &=in A- I heard you describe some of these service projects 1307995_1311470 that uh 1311470_1312095 &=in um (.) Intervarsity is involved in 1312095_1314720 &=in and friends 1314720_1315845 um 1315845_1316305 (.) &=in these &=laugh &=laugh &=in these projects 1316305_1320040 (.) &=in even if uh (..) they're working about rebuilding old houses 1320040_1324775 or whatever &=laugh &=in 1324775_1326475 (..) they are not things (.) that have nothing to do with love . 1326475_1329855 *JEFF: (..) &=in They a:re works of love . 1330355_1332680 *JEFF: (..) They are (.) the evidence 1332930_1335280 (..) of that (.) love of God 1335660_1337430 (.) in our hearts . 1337430_1338330 *JEFF: Uh they are the fruit 1338330_1339400 (.) that is borne 1339400_1340440 &=in by the tree 1340440_1342095 (.) that has the roots down into the water of God's refreshing grace and love . 1342095_1346790 *JEFF: (.) &=in (.) And uh 1346790_1348665 (.) the mystical heights of Christian devotion 1348665_1352305 (.) &=in ought never to be separated (.) from (.) the realities 1352305_1356090 &=in of uh (.) Christian (.) service . 1356090_1358725 *JEFF: (..) The uh 1360955_1362025 (..) there was a hymn (.) in the old InterVarsity hymnal 1362025_1365045 it's not in the new one 1365045_1366215 by XX XX 1366215_1367545 a hymn that I (.) love v- very much . 1367545_1370005 *JEFF: &=in Talks about how we go with Jesus through the desert 1370005_1373350 and through uh 1373350_1374270 &=in the sufferings 1374270_1375440 and the trials of this life . 1375440_1376890 *JEFF: &=in (.) And uh 1376890_1377915 (.) its very last verse is uh 1377915_1379825 &=in &{l=READ he who in his hour of sorrow 1379825_1382520 (.) bore the curse alone 1382520_1384395 &=in I who through the lonely desert 1384395_1387300 (.) trod (.) where he had gone . 1387300_1389805 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in He and I 1389805_1391505 (.) ⌈ in ⌉ that (.) bright glory . 1391505_1393385 *AUD: ⌊ &=COUGH ⌋ . 1391505_1391945 *JEFF: (.) &=in one deep joy (.) shall (.) share . 1393570_1397030 *JEFF: (..) &=in Mine 1397415_1398665 (.) &=in to be (.) forever with him . 1398665_1401275 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in His 1401705_1403340 (..) &=in that (.) I am there &}l=READ &=ex . 1403340_1405845 *JEFF: (..) &=in My friends 1406580_1408425 (..) in the wonder of God's love . 1408515_1410565 *JEFF: (..) He's pleased with you . 1411050_1412970 *JEFF: (..) God who looked at his own Son 1413930_1415955 (.) and his heart rejoiced . 1415955_1417540 *JEFF: (..) His heart rejoices this morning . 1418320_1420555 *JEFF: (.) In your praise . 1420675_1422230 *JEFF: (..) In your worship . 1422230_1423715 *JEFF: (.) &=in In the service of your hands . 1423715_1426295 *JEFF: (..) In the love of your heart . 1427015_1428570 *JEFF: (..) Shall we pray . 1429585_1430845 *JEFF: (..) &=tsk &=in Our heavenly Father 1431350_1433250 (..) we (..) cannot find words to express our love for you 1434525_1439505 (..) because we are overwhelmed by your love for us . 1441065_1444400 *JEFF: (..) Lord Jesus 1445475_1446790 (..) how may we speak to you 1446920_1449040 (..) of that (.) which you give to us . 1449380_1451955 *JEFF: (..) Spirit of God 1452450_1453785 (..) how we praise you 1454245_1455650 (..) that when we do not know what to pray as we should 1455650_1459300 (..) you make intercession for us 1459475_1461520 with groanings that cannot be uttered . 1461520_1463525 *JEFF: (..) &=in And o Lord 1463915_1465195 (..) receive we pray (..) this morning 1466370_1468855 (..) the incense &=in of our love for you . 1468855_1471875 *AUD: (..) &=COUGH . 1472670_1473265 *JEFF: and forbid Lord 1473000_1474350 (..) that this should be just a passing emotion in our hearts 1475025_1478745 (..) uh b:urn it upon: the deepest (.) recesses of our being . 1479255_1483435 *JEFF: (..) Make us Lord your servants . 1484195_1486305 *JEFF: (.) &=in Your servants in love . 1486305_1488300 *JEFF: (..) We ask it in Jesus's name 1488685_1490570 (.) amen . 1490570_1491305 *DAN: (..) ⌈ Doctor Mosely ⌉ thank you . 1496395_1497395 *JEFF: ⌊ &=in ⌋ . 1496120_1497070 *DAN: (.) for +... 1497395_1497815 *AUD: Yeah . 1497815_1498195 *DAN: +, coming and ⌈ speaking ⌉ to us . 1498280_1499535 *JEFF: ⌊ N_yeah ⌋ . 1498530_1498985 *MANY: &=APPLAUSE . 1499460_1507040 @End