0.000 2.572 ALAN: ... (H) I got a story to tell you, 2.572 3.820 it's a shaggy dog story, 3.820 6.645 but as long as we’re talking about that recorder and six-hundred dollars, 6.645 8.378 (H)= I’ll tell you the story, 8.378 10.178 (H)= oh gosh, 10.178 10.678 uh (Hx), 10.678 12.335 Rae and I and Sue and Buddy, 12.335 14.727 ... took a trip, 14.727 17.012 ... to Mexico City, 17.012 18.761 JON: ... (SNIFF) 18.761 19.882 ALAN: It must've been, 19.882 25.787 ... four to six months after my dad died. 25.787 26.704 That’s how I remember it, 26.704 28.014 he [died in s]ixty-s=- -- 26.796 27.351 JON: [Oh God]. 28.014 29.939 ALAN: ... December sixty-seven, 29.939 30.260 so, 30.260 33.107 (H)= sometime in sixty-eight we took this trip, 33.107 35.134 we’d been ... talking about it for a while, 35.134 36.834 ... uh=, 36.834 38.402 flew down to Mexico City, 38.402 39.582 ... uh we, 39.582 41.135 (Hx) c- think of the name of my hotel, 41.135 42.283 which wouldn’t mean anything now, 42.283 45.525 but we ended up in a ... fabulous hotel, 45.525 47.180 ... uh=, 47.180 48.180 ... first night, 48.180 49.979 we were with our rooms, 49.979 50.979 we got down there, 50.979 52.859 (H)= and the next morning, 52.859 53.218 Buddy, 53.218 55.247 who’s a ... early riser anyhow, 55.247 57.225 was probably up ... four o'clock, 57.225 59.208 and he went down there complaining to the manager, 59.208 60.627 ... So, 60.627 63.201 .. cause it was not w- the accommodation we were supposed to have had, 63.201 65.379 we checked in about eight o’clock at night or so, 65.379 65.780 which is, 65.780 67.302 (H)= in Mexico is like, 67.302 67.779 .. you know, 67.779 68.373 ... -- 68.373 71.930 (H) ... Well we ended up with a .. corner .. suite. 71.930 74.340 ... With, 74.340 76.272 ... It was so big, 76.272 76.920 JON: ... @@ 76.920 79.340 ALAN: we could've had a party for fifty people XXXXX. 79.340 80.880 Three bathrooms in it, 80.880 83.253 ... (H) % two bedrooms, 83.253 83.653 so they had, 83.653 85.739 but they had an extra guest bathroom XX, 85.739 86.696 .. big ba=r, 86.696 88.854 ... it was circ-, 88.854 90.180 open on two sides, 90.180 91.901 of course we didn’t have anybody there but the two of us, 91.901 96.713 (H) ... And I remember the New York Yankees were ... training there. 96.713 97.886 So it probably was, 97.886 99.518 the season opens in .. April, 99.518 101.898 so it probably was February or March, 101.898 104.178 ... (H) Mickey Mantle, 104.178 105.978 and uh Whitey Ford and all of em, 105.978 109.330 ... I wish I'd ... been smart enough .. to know then that uh, 109.330 110.899 (H) these baseball cards, 110.899 111.874 and those .. autographs, 111.874 112.622 would be selling for, 112.622 114.222 ... [three or four] hundred dollars, 113.074 113.647 JON: [(H)] 114.222 114.423 ALAN: but, 114.423 115.299 .. at any rate, 115.299 115.734 uh, 115.734 120.900 ... I went down there with a recorder. 120.900 122.405 ... We used to -- 122.405 125.058 ... We had those ... things at the store, 125.058 126.862 ... that we used to u=se, 126.862 128.604 ... when we’d [go out of] town and, 127.487 128.031 JON: [(SNIFF)] 128.604 130.856 ALAN: particularly if we were looking at some site, 130.856 132.043 (H) ... o=r, 132.043 133.123 we were looking at a [store], 132.770 133.123 JON: [(SNIFF)] 133.123 134.044 ALAN: when we had some comments, 134.044 135.223 we'd talk into those things. 135.223 138.590 (H) ... We had ... four or five of em, 138.590 139.199 Aaron had one, 139.199 139.959 I had one, 139.959 140.715 .. Mike had one, 140.715 141.725 XX had one, 141.725 143.077 , 143.077 147.060 ... Things .. sold at the time for about eight or nine-hundred dollars. 147.060 148.627 JON: ... Eight [or ni]ne-hundr[2ed2]? 147.900 148.183 ALAN: [Eight-] -- 148.513 149.810 [2Eigh2]t or nine-hundred dollar[3s3]. 149.475 149.810 JON: [3(SNIFF)3] 149.810 150.963 ALAN: ... Uh, 150.963 153.650 ... you got a very sophisticated one, 153.650 155.427 but you know the little ones now about this size. 155.427 157.802 Well this son of a bitch weighed about . 157.802 159.734 It was . 159.734 160.259 JON: .. (THROAT) 160.259 161.270 ALAN: .. Had a pouch, 161.270 161.595 like, 161.595 162.595 sorta like you’ve got. 162.595 163.498 I carried it around. 163.498 164.075 Well any rate, 164.075 167.180 ... (H) my wife had fallen in lo=ve, 167.180 168.498 ... with a, 168.498 172.975 ... Mexican artist by the name of ... Nierman. 172.975 175.699 ... Forgot his first name. 175.699 176.418 Jewish guy. 176.418 177.252 JON: ... [Mm=]. 176.901 177.950 ALAN: [Mexi]can national. 177.950 180.681 ... His paintings sold, 180.681 183.287 ... f- fo=r ... generally, 183.287 185.872 ... a thousand dollars plus. 185.872 187.000 ... Which was, 187.000 187.676 .. for me, 187.676 189.120 JON: ... A lotta [money in those days]. 188.317 189.722 ALAN: [Twenty-five yea]rs ago, 189.722 190.657 ... I was -- 190.657 192.480 no way I was gonna spend twe- a thou- -- 192.480 193.343 First of all I didn’t like him. 193.343 194.365 .. Very splashy. 194.365 196.923 ... Albert and Marcia had one of his paintings, 196.923 198.140 (TSK) (H)= ... they had -- 198.140 199.145 ... They had -- 199.145 202.425 ... I I don’t know, 202.425 204.379 Marcia had a relative in Mexico, 204.379 205.027 or something. 205.027 206.327 But they’d been down there. 206.327 207.484 ... Many times and, 207.484 208.837 ... and they had his book, 208.837 210.540 ... a=nd, 210.540 212.203 ... we got down there, 212.203 213.379 and he wa=s, 213.379 214.166 .. uh=, 214.166 216.046 ... all over the place. 216.046 216.819 His paintings were, 216.819 218.194 he lived in Mexico City. 218.194 220.301 ... (H) ... A=nd uh=, 220.301 222.580 JON: ... (SNIFF) 222.580 225.879 ALAN: we had a ... cab driver. 225.879 227.439 ... Uh=, 227.439 228.941 that was gonna take us to, 228.941 232.682 ... (H) wherever the place where the go=ld was. 232.682 233.240 I can’t remember, 233.240 234.323 one of the roughest rides, 234.323 235.561 and if you ever been to Mexico City, 235.561 236.407 you [made that] ride, 235.561 235.970 JON: []. 236.407 237.859 ALAN: (H)= some kinda city, 237.859 239.482 about .. hundred miles away, 239.482 241.559 I th=ought we were gonna die= going down there. 241.559 242.482 An old car and, 242.482 243.039 .. anyway. 243.039 244.475 (H)= .. Well before that, 244.475 246.000 he took us .. around the city, 246.000 247.836 ... still got his car=d somewhere. 247.836 250.014 .. (H) Slammed the damn door on this guy, 250.014 251.214 poor guy’s hand one day, 251.214 251.739 inadvertently, 251.739 252.162 we were getting out, 252.162 253.439 we had him about three days, 253.439 256.819 (H)= one day we took him down to ... wherever we went, 256.819 258.566 ... Buddy and Sue didn’t go, 258.566 260.283 ... but he .. took us to the ruins, 260.283 261.135 and all that stuff. 261.135 261.560 You know, 261.560 263.018 (H)= .. uh, 263.018 264.244 ... you know, 264.244 265.639 I and I I knew .. then, 265.639 266.341 and I know now, 266.341 267.166 that those guys, 267.166 268.518 ... take you to a particular place, 268.518 269.366 they get a commission. 269.366 271.341 ... Well, 271.341 274.355 ... they took us to this guy’s studio. 274.355 275.175 JON: ... He what? 275.175 277.005 ALAN: Took us to this guy- .. artist’s studio. 277.005 279.112 ... Uh, 279.112 280.959 ... a=nd uh=, 280.959 283.721 ... Rae, 283.721 286.044 ... he was there. 286.044 289.446 ... And she saw a painting she liked. 289.446 290.864 ... A=nd, 290.864 292.168 ... uh, 292.168 294.304 he wanted that damn ... recorder. 294.304 296.774 ... And he said I tell you what I’ll do. 296.774 298.143 .. XX .. make you a deal. 298.143 298.720 He said I'll -- 298.720 300.096 ... You take this painting, 300.096 301.327 ... I want that recorder. 301.327 301.854 I’ll take it. 301.854 302.686 ... Could- -- 302.686 303.427 naw I can’t do that, 303.427 304.154 it’s not mine. 304.154 304.811 ... It was -- 304.811 306.816 ... It’s about a thousand dollar swap. 306.816 310.378 ... Shit I thought my wife was gonna have a [fit, 310.126 310.978 JON: [@@@] 310.378 311.378 ALAN: she was pissed] off, 311.378 313.680 (H) Mexico City was a, 313.680 314.679 uh in those days, 314.679 316.054 .. probably still is, 316.054 316.771 ... not -- 316.771 319.387 ... For this guy he was very successful. 319.387 320.860 (H) ... Uh=, 320.860 322.562 ... very prolific. 322.562 324.222 (H) But it was an art colony, 324.222 325.599 and there were a lot of Americans down there. 325.599 326.647 He was not an American. 326.647 328.716 ... A lot of Americans down there, 328.716 330.274 ... uh because, 330.274 332.384 ... cost of living was so cheap at the time. 332.384 334.862 And they- they had these ... art shows everywhere. 334.862 337.270 ... (H) Well we bought a painting, 337.270 338.943 ... uh=, 338.943 340.470 .. of a little Mexican woman, 340.470 341.860 ... still got it, 341.860 343.179 with a watermelon on her head, 343.179 343.879 like it a lot. 343.879 346.160 .. Think I paid ... . 346.160 347.610 Well that was about my price range. 347.610 348.862 ... Uh, 348.862 351.223 ... while I was down there, 351.223 354.141 we ... may have bought a couple of other %i- inexpensive paintings, 354.141 355.433 maybe .. collectively we bought, 355.433 357.323 ... maybe spent a hundred and fifty dollars. 357.323 358.351 (H)= Uh=, 358.351 359.377 hell I was not an art -- 359.377 360.680 We weren’t art collectors. 360.680 361.785 ... A=nd uh, 361.785 363.060 to spend a thousand dollars, 363.060 363.935 to me for a painting, 363.935 364.885 was unthinkable. 364.885 366.480 ... (H) ... Uh, 366.480 368.617 ... The s- first painting I ever bought, 368.617 370.364 my father-in-law bought it from Geri f-, 370.364 371.694 ... Geri Rae, 371.694 374.786 ... it was one of Geri’s original early .. early paintings, 374.786 375.794 which I thoroughly enjoy, 375.794 377.113 she’s changed styles but, 377.113 379.205 (H)= Whi=le we were down there, 379.205 380.377 ... uh, 380.377 383.055 JON: ... You know [I], 382.740 383.055 ALAN: [This] -- 383.055 383.384 [2It2] -- 383.055 384.737 JON: [2I’ve s2]=een that somewhere before. 384.737 392.021 ALAN: ... You know I’ve had that painting for ... thirty-five years I guess. 392.021 393.125 I- I’ve never framed it. 393.125 394.556 (H) .. And I really like it. 394.556 395.544 ... Uh=, 395.544 395.898 my -- 395.898 398.636 ... My .. my father-in-law wanted to give me a painting for my -- 398.636 399.851 Piece of art for my office. 399.851 400.515 And so I had a -- 400.515 403.993 ... (H) We had a ... display guy at the time, 403.993 405.393 by the name of Be=n M=oney, 405.393 408.133 ... fashioned himself as an artist. 408.133 409.963 ... And I said Ben, 409.963 411.319 ... pick me out something. 411.319 413.102 fifty bucks to spend. 413.102 414.226 ... So, 414.226 415.638 .. he got this from Geri, 415.638 417.065 ... and I loved it. 417.065 418.470 ... [XX], 417.836 418.470 JON: [It’s beautiful]. 418.470 419.019 ALAN: And and, 419.019 421.384 .. I can see all [kinda things in it], 420.164 421.384 JON: [It’s got a lotta color and], 421.384 422.043 ALAN: Lotta color. 422.043 423.439 I see a Chinese junk, 423.439 423.804 At any rate, 423.804 424.576 .. to make a long s- -- 424.576 428.100 (H) ... This fellow LeRoy Neiman, 428.100 429.362 ... . 429.362 430.960 .. (H) Sports artist. 430.960 432.613 ... Not the same guy, 432.613 434.574 ... as this guy .. Nierman. 434.574 435.684 I’ve forgotten his name. 435.684 437.238 JON: .. Oh I thought there was a connection. 437.238 437.765 ALAN: ... No. 437.765 438.565 No connection. 438.565 440.240 K- there is a connection on the story, 440.240 442.274 (H) ... Well, 442.274 444.240 ... we looked at a lot of art, 444.240 445.308 in in in the, 445.308 446.060 .. in the, 446.060 447.056 uh parks, 447.056 448.080 and there at least it was, 448.080 449.381 ... pleasant weather and, 449.381 451.336 (H) ... Like .. that .. uh, 451.336 453.559 ... It was sorta like, 453.559 454.413 ... uh, 454.413 458.678 ... What the hell they call the district in New York, 458.678 459.378 where on Sunday, 459.378 460.378 they put all the artists, 460.378 461.579 .. put their paintings out, 461.579 462.015 uh, 462.015 462.519 the Village, 462.519 463.015 the Village. 463.015 463.620 JON: The Village. 463.620 465.377 ALAN: ... You know all the all these artists put their -- 465.377 465.825 Well they had, 465.825 468.391 ... must've had three areas like that. 468.391 469.765 , 469.765 470.517 and my god, 470.517 472.417 there must've been of paintings. 472.417 473.937 ... (H) And uh, 473.937 474.899 .. most of em, 474.899 477.027 ... very inexpensive. 477.027 478.927 Uh starving artists that were down there, 478.927 480.127 American. 480.127 480.741 JON: .. (SNIFF) 480.741 481.644 ALAN: ... Well, 481.644 483.299 ... uh=, 483.299 486.400 ... we wandered around down in the, 486.400 487.110 the area which, 487.110 488.959 I’ve forgotten the area that they called, 488.959 490.860 ... in Mexico City where, 490.860 492.013 ... uh, 492.013 494.361 ... most of the jewelry shops are and things. 494.361 495.605 ... It’s got a name. 495.605 496.287 I can’t remember, 496.287 497.314 I’ve never been back. 497.314 499.862 (H) ... They also had a lot of, 499.862 500.660 ... uh, 500.660 504.400 ... artist .. galleries down there. 504.400 506.657 ... And I walked into this gallery, 506.657 507.685 .. during one of our -- 507.685 510.039 ... We were down there maybe ten days. 510.039 512.772 ... And I saw this guy Nierman. 512.772 513.637 I never heard of him, 513.637 515.881 ... at that time. 515.881 518.481 He he .. he got famous at the nineteen, 518.481 520.666 ... uh=, 520.666 523.253 ... probably seventy-two Olympics. 523.253 524.840 (H) .. Uh=, 524.840 525.577 ... but his c- -- 525.577 529.059 His art was already in collections of guys like Edward gee Robinson, 529.059 530.852 it was very popular in Hollywood. 530.852 533.016 ... He also was very prolific. 533.016 535.520 .. Big ... handlebar mustache. 535.520 537.658 (H) ... And I walked in, 537.658 539.907 ... and there must have been about, 539.907 543.696 ... twelve or fifteen paintings in there. 543.696 545.740 ... (H)= They were, 545.740 546.684 ... uh=, 546.684 550.485 JON: ... You walked into his studio, 550.485 550.705 or, 550.705 552.460 ALAN: ... It was a gallery. 552.460 553.022 ... Uh, 553.022 553.964 he didn’t live there. 553.964 555.057 [he didn’t l]ive in Mexico. 553.964 554.393 JON: [Okay]. 555.057 555.361 ALAN: The oth- th- -- 555.361 555.806 The guy n- -- 555.806 556.837 Th- the Jewish fellow, 556.837 557.702 they’re both [Jewish]. 557.297 557.702 JON: [Okay]. 557.702 559.232 ALAN: Th- th- this guy Nierman, 559.232 560.776 .. who was a Mexican national, 560.776 561.440 lived there. 561.440 561.894 JON: Okay. 561.894 563.321 ALAN: ... Forgotten his first name. 563.321 565.103 Leonardo Nierman or something. 565.103 566.120 (H) But any rate, 566.120 566.673 but uh, 566.673 568.718 % this guy’s name was LeRoy .. Neiman, 568.718 569.333 I’d never heard of him, 569.333 570.377 well I'd .. heard of Nierman. 570.377 571.736 (H) Uh=, 571.736 574.032 because Rae went down there wanting to buy one of those paintings. 574.032 575.159 (H) These were paintings, 575.159 577.640 which I’d say were about the size of this Joe Namath. 577.640 578.213 ... there. 578.213 579.663 .. Which is a seriograph. 579.663 581.074 ... And, 581.074 582.106 .. % we went in, 582.106 582.622 and uh, 582.622 586.639 ... they were just back from Acapulco, 586.639 589.340 ... season was just over in Acapulco. 589.340 593.363 ... And he had about ... fifteen ... twenty paintings, 593.363 594.512 twenty-five paintings, 594.512 595.847 ... football players, 595.847 596.930 horse races, 596.930 598.211 ... that’s what he did, 598.211 600.013 they were .. about that size. 600.013 601.319 ... I’d been in there, 601.319 602.985 ... oh God I looked at em, 602.985 604.180 they just struck me as something, 604.180 605.001 I loved em. 605.001 605.732 They were great. 605.732 606.613 They were you know very -- 606.613 608.517 (H) Had a very distinctive style. 608.517 609.760 ... And, 609.760 610.378 .. uh, 610.378 611.960 .. the guy said uh, 611.960 614.407 ... God you've been in here, 614.407 615.821 ... so many times that, 615.821 616.711 said I'll make you a deal. 616.711 620.060 ... You pick out any four of these you want, 620.060 621.835 I’ll give em to you for five-hundred dollars. 621.835 623.132 ... The four of em. 623.132 624.398 ... Shit, 624.398 625.471 I loved those things. 625.471 626.980 I stewed on those son of bitches, 626.980 628.361 stewed on those son of bitches, 628.361 629.059 I figured, 629.059 630.951 (H) I bought those fucking paintings, 630.951 633.080 I’d have to buy that damn thing for Rae, 633.080 634.948 JON: .. @@[@@@@@] 633.695 634.114 ALAN: [or, 634.113 636.172 I’d trade that cam]era for a thousand dollars, 636.172 637.846 and nine-hundred dollars to buy another one, 637.846 642.052 ... (H) I promise you as God is my witness. 642.052 649.143 ... This guy’s originals sell for . 649.143 650.344 JON: ... You are kidding. 650.344 651.017 ALAN: They were. 651.017 652.071 ... He is, 652.071 653.075 ... big, 653.075 653.899 ... big, 653.899 657.456 He’s the . 657.456 658.073 JON: Really. 658.073 659.979 ALAN: ... And ... uh, 659.979 661.355 ... I’d never heard of him. 661.355 662.157 ... And, 662.157 663.953 but of course the price was right for me, 663.953 664.903 but I didn’t buy em. 664.903 665.980 (H) ... That was about- -- 665.980 666.935 That was about nineteen -- 666.935 668.117 Spring of sixty-eight. 668.117 670.195 .. And I was watching the Olympics, 670.195 674.037 ... (H) of ... nineteen-seventy-two. 674.037 677.200 ... And he’d been engaged by the Olympic committee. 677.200 680.093 ... (H) Uh he was .. prominent then, 680.093 682.966 but not ... world famous. 682.966 684.514 JON: ... [(SNIFF)=] 683.811 685.160 ALAN: [A=nd] uh=, 685.160 686.313 ... I= -- 686.313 690.620 ... He was up ... all over. 690.620 693.367 ... He’s got a grea=t big bull of -- 693.367 695.924 ... Bull Moose mousta=che sort of a deal, 695.924 697.522 General Bull Moose if you remember. 697.522 697.803 JON: Yep. 697.803 699.313 ALAN: (H) And .. uh, 699.313 701.660 ... his art was so distinctive. 701.660 702.077 And he’s -- 702.077 702.980 The sketching. 702.980 704.040 ... I said Jesus. 704.040 705.184 That’s my ma=n. 705.184 706.852 ... I remember seeing at the Olympics. 706.852 708.153 .. I hollered and screamed, 708.153 709.222 and I told the story, 709.222 710.278 (H) Well of course, 710.278 711.812 ... since that time, 711.812 713.993 ... I'm on his mailing list, 713.993 716.140 ... XX ... XX .. X X, 716.140 718.023 one main gallery in New York, 718.023 719.189 ... that uh, 719.189 721.495 think distributes for him around the United States, 721.495 722.698 and I’m on the mailing list, 722.698 724.964 ... and they get today, 724.964 730.097 ... twenty-five hundred to twenty-seven-fifty for .. a seriograph. 730.097 735.735 ... (H) Of which he produces maybe ... three to five-hundred of em. 735.735 736.931 .. Depending on the issue. 736.931 738.538 (H) But these were originals. 738.538 739.803 (H) ... I- -- 739.803 741.565 ~Jon I promise you as God as my witness. 741.565 742.353 (H) .. I -- 742.353 743.073 ... He was -- 743.073 745.132 I could've walked away with those things and -- 745.132 746.844 (H) .. And .. uh=, 746.844 748.715 ... I I I p- -- 748.715 749.594 ... % % -- 749.594 751.215 But that’s my story on that machine. 751.215 752.740 (H) ... That damn thing, 752.740 753.411 and of course, 753.411 754.125 ... I didn’t know-, 754.125 755.759 Obviously I didn’t know what I was missing, 755.759 758.083 if I’d [<@ done I'd done] that @> [2(H)2]. 756.138 757.039 JON: [@@@@] 757.489 758.083 [2Obviously2]. 758.083 758.424 ALAN: [3But you know3], 758.083 758.424 JON: [3(H)3] 758.424 759.143 ALAN: (H) [44] -- 758.674 760.943 JON: [4But still4] five-hundred dollars was a lot of money in those- -- 760.943 762.525 ALAN: % .. Five-hundred dol[5lars was5] -- 761.940 764.124 JON: [5You didn’t spend5] that much on the whole trip [6probably6]. 763.707 764.784 ALAN: [6Oh h6]ell I w- I, 764.784 765.580 you know I w- I, 765.580 767.483 I would s- I would say probably, 767.483 770.542 ... certainly we didn’t spend five-hundred dollars for, 770.542 771.099 uh=, 771.099 772.159 ... for, 772.159 774.527 ... novelties and things of that nature, 774.527 774.988 you know it was -- 774.988 777.000 You tal- you talking about a lo=ng time ago. 777.000 778.506 Mexico City was chea=p. 778.506 779.507 [Je=sus Christ], 778.506 779.507 JON: [Oh man it was] -- 779.482 779.798 ALAN: I mean, 779.798 782.555 (H)= We .. we we stayed in a f=irst rate, 782.555 785.277 .. I guess what you call today a four star hotel but, 785.277 785.897 (H) hell, 785.897 787.097 I don't imagine we paid, 787.097 789.115 ... twenty dollars, 789.115 790.400 twenty-five dollars a night. 790.400 792.541 ... You know [XX] uh uh, 791.418 791.820 JON: [Probably]. 792.531 793.040 Prob[2ably2]. 792.728 793.412 ALAN: [2But2] uh, 793.412 794.201 anyhow, 794.201 795.816 ... uh .. I I I -- 795.816 798.495 ... I my -- 798.495 800.215 ... I give my wife the story, 800.215 801.818 Every once in a while this guy’s name -- 801.818 804.673 Cause uh I I I .. I .. I like this guy, 804.673 805.251 love him. 805.251 806.372 (H) .. Uh, 806.372 807.415 and of course, 807.415 808.820 ... you know I’ve never, 808.820 810.102 ... uh, 810.102 812.706 ... XX 812.706 815.639 ... This one over here on the right, 815.639 817.797 ... although it’s signed by, 817.797 818.253 by n-, 818.253 818.940 .. Nier- -- 818.940 819.324 By, 819.324 820.397 by LeRoy Neiman, 820.397 821.334 Paul XX, 821.334 823.440 ... and a= uh, 823.440 826.019 ... And is also signed by the artist, 826.019 828.187 (H) it was done for a=, 828.187 828.879 .. uh, 828.879 829.914 JON: ... Poster? 829.914 830.671 ALAN: ... A benefit, 830.671 831.472 it was a poster. 831.472 832.639 ... That’s just, 832.639 833.294 That’s not a, 833.294 835.383 ... that’s not what they call a seriograph, 835.383 836.324 (H) the Joe N-, 836.324 837.580 the Joe uh Namath, 837.580 839.412 .. [Who was of course] an Ala[2bama2] football player. 837.697 838.139 JON: [Yeah]. 838.396 838.603 [2Yeah2]. 839.412 840.112 ALAN: (H) is, 840.112 841.824 I saw it out in San Francisco, 841.824 842.124 and my, 842.124 845.115 ... my .. my in-laws bought that for me, 845.115 845.871 ... uh, 845.871 847.423 ... but uh=, 847.423 848.679 ... uh=, 848.679 850.096 JON: ... It’s a beauty though. 850.096 850.744 ALAN: That’s my, 850.744 851.818 That th- that’s my r-, 851.818 852.412 That’s my, 852.412 855.261 ... my experience with one of those machines. 855.261 856.880 I didn’t have enough judgment to, 856.880 859.400 (H) ... to [trade him that fucking machine, 857.896 858.996 JON: [To give him the machine. 858.996 860.078 @@@ @] 859.400 861.440 ALAN: because I’d say] probably it wasn’t, 861.440 863.839 ... Like it was like computers. 863.839 865.541 ... Well in a year or so after that, 865.541 866.935 that thing was so impractical. 866.935 867.735 .. Cause it was s-, 867.735 869.693 ... heavy heavy heavy. 869.693 870.714 (H) .. You-, 870.714 871.342 uh and, 871.342 871.875 JON: Well they're- -- 871.875 873.355 .. %it’s [like you s]ay I -- 872.400 872.755 ALAN: [XX] 873.355 875.368 JON: [2~Eloise2] gave me one for Chri[3stmas about3] -- 873.405 873.827 ALAN: [2X2] 874.720 875.368 [3This big3]. 875.368 875.853 You know, 875.853 876.803 and you buy one for, 876.803 878.074 ... sixty dollars. 878.074 878.937 Eighty dollars. 878.937 879.762 ... I got one, 879.762 881.085 I bought from Radio Shack. 881.085 881.340 It's -- 881.340 883.458 JON: [(H) Well did Rae] ever get uh Nierman, 881.340 882.240 ALAN: [(H) XXX] 883.458 884.394 ... No. 884.394 885.538 ... Never did get it. 885.538 888.019 ... But she nudged me when she got back, 888.019 888.575 but of course, 888.575 889.411 ... I guess, 889.411 890.465 I haven’t done it recently, 890.465 892.580 but over the years I like to tell her this story. 892.580 893.560 JON: @@@[@@] 893.111 893.571 ALAN: [tonight], 893.571 895.913 because I haven’t thought about it in a long time, 895.913 896.904 (H) And she’ll say to me, 896.904 898.174 . 898.972 901.256 I must've gone] into the place fi=ve ti=mes. 901.256 901.544 You know, 901.544 902.119 [I'd go] in there, 901.636 901.975 JON: [XX] 902.119 903.719 ALAN: and your mouth is just . 903.719 904.978 (H) ... Shit. 904.978 905.737 If I buy [those] -- 905.458 907.365 JON: [But y]ou knew you were gonna have to buy [2her w-2] -- 907.030 907.787 ALAN: [2Well2] if I had to -- 907.787 909.205 If I bought those things, 909.205 911.760 ... Shit I'd have to buy her that da=mn [thing], 911.436 911.787 JON: [Oh], 911.777 912.586 ain’t no [2question2]. 912.206 914.198 ALAN: [2And there w2]as no= question about that, 914.198 914.917 there wouldn’t've been -- 914.917 916.140 Wouldn’t been any living with her. 916.140 916.541 You know, 916.541 916.940 it’s uh, 916.940 917.784 y- y-, 917.784 918.700 .. (H) You know, 918.700 919.505 ... h- I -- 919.505 921.580 ... I’ve gotten a lot better. 921.580 923.696 ... But in those days, 923.696 924.353 ... you know, 924.353 925.063 hell I was, 925.063 925.870 ... uh=, 925.870 927.497 ... maybe, 927.497 928.966 ... I was, 928.966 930.775 ... s- see. 930.775 932.208 ... Sixty-eight, 932.208 933.038 seventy-eight eighty-eight, 933.038 934.794 ... X -- 934.794 937.438 ... Just twenty-seven twenty-eight years ago. 937.438 940.100 I was .. thirty-eight .. thirty-nine .. years old. 940.100 941.837 ... (H) And uh, 941.837 943.256 ... I, 943.256 946.480 ... I sure didn’t have -- 946.480 947.815 % I sure wasn’t prosperous. 947.815 949.439 I had my damn trip budgeted. 949.439 950.801 (H) ... And uh, 950.801 952.633 ... to have gone out there and spent, 952.633 956.555 ... another fifteen-hundred to two-thousand dollars for artwork, 956.555 957.860 ... you know, 957.860 959.443 ... my mother, 959.443 961.360 who was you know strong as moose meat, 961.360 962.779 ... come back, 962.779 964.991 ... if she’d've known, 964.991 968.944 JON: ... [@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@] 965.555 967.464 ALAN: [She’d've figured I needed my fucking head examined. 967.464 968.944 @(Hx)=] 968.944 970.500 JON: (H) She’d've deducted it. 970.500 971.791 @@ .. (H)[= 971.390 972.059 ALAN: []. 971.791 972.441 JON: Oh]=. 972.441 973.817 ALAN: .. Any rate uh, 973.817 975.057 JON: That’s a good story th[ough]. 974.903 976.317 ALAN: [Ah] it’s ... true story. 976.317 976.837 JON: Good story. 976.837 977.554 ALAN: True story. 977.554 979.380 (H) .. It was a true story. 979.380 980.101 I I -- 980.101 984.046 JON: ... Well it would've cost you that to replace the doggone ... machine? 984.046 986.124 ALAN: (H) Aw I’d've had to replace it for the store, 986.124 986.974 (H) uh, 986.974 988.435 but as I said it was only a matter of, 988.435 989.985 ... I guess a year, 989.985 991.846 ... those things were really antiquated-. 991.846 993.546 .. Although we used em a lot. 993.546 993.855 Uh, 993.855 994.804 in those days, 994.804 995.764 ... and I, 995.764 997.970 .. you know I .. recorded the whole trip, 997.970 999.419 .. (H) .. and uh, 999.419 1000.785 you know things that we did, 1000.785 1002.440 ... It was a wonderful trip, 1002.440 1003.440 ], 1002.620 1003.944 JON: [Better than keeping a] diary? 1003.944 1004.407 ALAN: Oh yeah. 1004.407 1005.216 A lot easier. 1005.216 1006.135 It really is. 1006.135 1006.479 .. Uh, 1006.479 1006.879 JON: .. We -- 1006.879 1007.835 ALAN: .. [I keep a] -- 1007.141 1009.572 JON: [Remember we tried] keeping a diary on the China trip, 1009.572 1011.315 and man it was ... arduous. 1011.315 1011.680 ALAN: Well, 1011.680 1012.860 ... I keep a diary- -- 1012.860 1014.915 course I .. we .. we haven’t traveled much lately, 1014.915 1016.106 I keep a diary, 1016.106 1017.315 ... when I, 1017.315 1019.039 ... go out of the country. 1019.039 1020.301 ... Still got em in here. 1020.301 1020.980 .. Otherwise, 1020.980 1022.562 (H) my problem is, 1022.562 1025.021 ... and it’s a lot easier to do it that way, 1025.021 1025.366 but I, 1025.366 1027.665 ... I keep I diary when I go out of the country, 1027.665 1028.273 JON: .. (SNIFF) 1028.273 1029.300 ALAN: The problem is, 1029.300 1031.012 ... %= with me, 1031.012 1032.839 ... not that it comes up too much, 1032.839 1035.884 (H) .. but someone’ll say something to me about somewhere I s-, 1035.884 1036.571 ((POUND)) .. Shit, 1036.571 1037.171 I .. I, 1037.171 1037.645 .. you know I, 1037.645 1039.640 ... I forgot where I went. 1039.640 1040.280 I have to look, 1040.280 1041.381 cause I can’t remember. 1041.381 1043.386 JON: (H) Well you go to so many places, 1043.386 1045.042 .. on a cruise particularly, 1045.042 1045.353 [you know], 1045.037 1045.444 ALAN: [Yeah]. 1045.444 1048.058 JON: (H) ... So many places in a short time, 1048.058 1049.258 that you get em mixed up. 1049.258 1052.026 Now we can’t even keep our photos straight without the diary. 1052.026 1052.636 ALAN: Oh yeah. 1052.636 1053.236 Well you know, 1053.236 1055.297 .. y- when you get back from your trip, 1055.297 1057.886 ... until you make another trip, 1057.886 1059.255 ... you can remember. 1059.255 1059.521 But, 1059.521 1061.619 having taken as many trips as you’ve taken, 1061.619 1062.258 (H) shit, 1062.258 1063.375 they sorta run together. 1063.375 1064.292 I’m talking about, 1064.292 1064.960 JON: ... They d[o]. 1064.835 1066.547 ALAN: [the] ones that were fi[2=ve years ago2], 1065.723 1066.433 JON: [2Honest they do2]. 1066.547 1068.886 ALAN: to separate the trip that you went on this one f- -- 1068.886 1070.304 (H) It’s tough to do. 1070.304 1071.660 (H) ... And uh, 1071.660 1072.380 ... but, 1072.380 1073.478 ... they're a lot -- 1073.478 1074.653 that’s a lot easier than a diary, 1074.653 1076.141 then you can transcribe it. 1076.141 1077.446 (H) But uh, 1077.446 1078.600 ... I don’t take, 1078.600 1081.247 ... I don’t take my diary in the domestic United States, 1081.247 1082.690 and we haven’t traveled all that much, 1082.690 1083.740 but I have taken em, 1083.740 1085.026 ... uh=, 1085.026 1087.691 ... first trip I made, 1087.691 1090.196 ... % .. you know, 1090.196 1090.827 o- out, 1090.827 1092.100 ... XXX, 1092.100 1094.056 In nineteen-seventy-six. 1094.056 1095.759 ... (H) XXX -- 1095.759 1096.365 Tha- -- 1096.365 1098.715 ... Outside of ... Mexico, 1098.715 1099.539 out of the country, 1099.539 1100.140 was I went to, 1100.140 1102.058 ... Uh= we went to, 1102.058 1102.957 I went to the Orient. 1102.957 1105.012 ... On a business trip. 1105.012 1106.473 XX exploratory trip, 1106.473 1108.207 ... fifteen days, 1108.207 1109.276 worked my ass off. 1109.276 1111.119 ... But it was uh, 1111.119 1112.079 went to uh, 1112.079 1112.964 ... Japan, 1112.964 1113.760 went to Osaka, 1113.760 1115.260 which was the textile city, 1115.260 1116.820 ... and then uh, 1116.820 1118.997 ... Taipei and Hong Kong. 1118.997 1120.100 (H) Uh=, 1120.100 1121.099 and it was a, 1121.099 1121.791 You’ve been. 1121.791 1124.342 ... U=m but it was for me, 1124.342 1125.519 ... uh, 1125.519 1127.420 ... uh not only an education, 1127.420 1128.847 we’d been doing some importing, 1128.847 1131.079 ... but uh= through, 1131.079 1132.311 ... a group. 1132.311 1133.872 ... And it was a group of us that went. 1133.872 1135.119 I guess it probably was, 1135.119 1137.659 ... a dozen in our group that went. 1137.659 1140.726 ... There was a group of stores that we were associated with, 1140.726 1143.737 (H) .. it was a .. a .. an interesting trip, 1143.737 1144.374 uh=, 1144.374 1146.614 ... % very educational. 1146.614 1148.279 (H) ... Uh, 1148.279 1151.279 ... still got my notes from nineteen-seventy-six but, 1151.279 1153.142 .. s- .. and all those god damn cards, 1153.142 1153.761 you know how they get over there, 1153.761 1154.536 everybody gives [you], 1154.265 1154.500 JON: [@] 1154.537 1155.185 ALAN: .. gives you, 1155.185 1155.541 JON: Yeah. 1155.541 1156.712 ALAN: .. gives you a card. 1156.712 1159.375 ... I'll never forget how impressed I was with, 1159.375 1160.600 of a=ll the Orientals, 1160.600 1162.500 the Japanese are so= bright. 1162.500 1163.247 My god. 1163.247 1164.425 .. And uh just uh, 1164.425 1166.461 ... uh= ... uh, 1166.461 1167.531 JON: ... [Catch <>. 1166.677 1167.085 ALAN: [They jus-] -- 1167.531 1167.960 JON: Don’t they. 1167.960 1168.277 ALAN: Oh. 1168.277 1170.285 ... They really they -- 1170.285 1171.759 .. they really they real- they really, 1171.759 1173.135 JON: They work at though man, 1173.135 1174.501 and the Chinese work at it. 1174.501 1175.629 They’re good students, 1175.629 1176.403 (H) Y[ou know], 1175.962 1176.586 ALAN: [Well ye]ah. 1176.586 1177.170 ... well, 1177.170 1177.495 you know, 1177.495 1177.945 we [see], 1177.661 1177.965 JON: [Listen], 1177.965 1179.540 look at these .. people from India. 1179.540 1180.797 What s- good students they are. 1180.797 1182.008 [Some of your fine doc]tors, 1180.797 1181.834 ALAN: [It’s amazing ]. 1182.008 1182.333 JON: yeah. 1182.333 1183.713 ALAN: You know we see these people, 1183.713 1184.238 you know y- -- 1184.238 1187.294 ... You know we’ve talked about this, 1187.294 1189.120 ... , 1189.120 1191.238 (H) .. all the problems we got with the Blacks, 1191.238 1192.485 I was just reading an article, 1192.485 1196.047 ... I believe it was the paper this morning. 1196.047 1198.092 ... Where I read it. 1198.092 1199.852 Maybe it was New York Times yesterday. 1199.852 1203.484 ... , 1203.484 1208.277 ... of the Black ... juveniles in their twenties, 1208.277 1210.124 ... are either in jail, 1210.124 1210.814 JON: @ @ @ 1210.814 1213.116 ALAN: ... on paro=le, 1213.116 1218.059 ... or just released. 1218.059 1219.642 ... Thirty-three percent. 1219.642 1220.875 ... And then I, 1220.875 1222.400 I read .. in a[nother art-] -- 1221.600 1223.633 JON: [And .. that doesn’t] count how many got away. 1223.633 1224.632 ALAN: .. Oh that’s right. 1224.632 1225.898 ... But that’s of the -- 1225.898 1227.779 ... % in their twenties. 1227.779 1229.202 ... I read an article, 1229.202 1231.206 .. within the last three or four months, 1231.206 1233.261 ... and I’m, 1233.261 1235.135 I believe I’m correct on this figure that, 1235.135 1242.299 ... of the United States . 1242.299 1244.450 ... +Twelve per+cent POUNDING>>. 1244.450 1246.274 ... Of the Black male population. 1246.274 1246.831 As you say, 1246.831 1247.356 how many di- -- 1247.356 1247.656 You know, 1247.656 1248.866 how many oughta be in jail, 1248.866 1250.049 ... probably that many more. 1250.049 1252.280 (H) .. But the point I was gonna make is, 1252.280 1254.905 ... and there’re always exceptions. 1254.905 1257.905 ... Uh .. not to take anything away from uh, 1257.905 1258.954 ... Percy Jones. 1258.954 1260.559 Whose article I read this morning. 1260.559 1262.022 (H) .. because I mean he's, 1262.022 1262.447 I don’t know, 1262.447 1263.588 .. what his family had, 1263.588 1264.249 but I mean he’s, 1264.249 1264.899 .. you know he’s, 1264.899 1266.049 he’s c- he’s .. he’s, 1266.049 1267.653 ... come out of it. 1267.653 1268.426 ... But, 1268.426 1270.601 ... by and large across the board, 1270.601 1271.630 ((POUND)) ... %=, 1271.630 1275.131 ... (H) .. they’ve just never educated themselves. 1275.131 1276.509 Coming from these back[grounds, 1276.164 1277.670 JON: [(H) Well that’s the hard p]art. 1276.509 1277.470 ALAN: and .. and yet you s-] -- 1277.670 1279.193 JON: they haven’t educat[2ed themselves2]. 1278.506 1281.920 ALAN: [2And you see these2] people come here from <>, 1284.839 1286.358 ... Taipei, 1286.358 1288.240 ... parents can’t speak English, 1288.240 1290.006 they come over not speaking English, 1290.006 1291.185 (H) .. and they, 1291.185 1293.610 they excel .. scholastically, 1293.610 1295.784 (H) in the most difficult subjects. 1295.784 1296.769 I mean chemistry, 1296.769 1297.576 physics, 1297.576 1298.578 .. medicine. 1298.578 1300.302 .. (H) I remember one year, 1300.302 1304.221 ... at the time I remember reading the article, 1304.221 1305.425 it’s been ten or twelve years ago, 1305.425 1306.245 but fourteen, 1306.245 1306.695 were. 1306.695 1307.377 Fourteen, 1307.377 1312.528 ... uh ... public ... and private ... high schools in Shreveport-Bos. 1312.528 1313.583

. 1313.583 1314.155 I remember that, 1314.155 1315.945 ... it was a big article, 1315.945 1317.995 that fi=ve valedictorians. 1317.995 1321.502 ... For ... sh_just Shreveport-Bossier. 1321.502 1324.655 ... Five valedictorians that year were of Oriental descent. 1324.655 1325.655 .. (H) You know, 1325.655 1326.797 couldn’t've been at that ti[me], 1326.728 1326.997 JON: [(SNIFF)]= 1326.997 1329.870 ALAN: ... two hundred and fif[2ty f2]amilies in the whole damn area. 1328.140 1328.451 JON: [2No2]. 1329.870 1331.251 ALAN: ... Uh, 1331.251 1331.612 JON: .. @ 1331.612 1332.518 ALAN: You know and you [] -- 1331.992 1332.518 JON: [You know um], 1332.493 1333.768 ALAN: and you think about the Jews, 1333.768 1334.311 the Irish, 1334.311 1335.123 and the Blacks, 1335.123 1337.374 and it’s the same .. all over the fucking [world]. 1336.779 1337.250 JON: [Mm]. 1337.374 1340.142 ALAN: (H) And I just read an article in New York Times. 1340.142 1341.052 ... Yesterday. 1341.052 1341.602 I clipped it. 1341.602 1342.627 For my wife to read. 1342.627 1344.232 .. (H)= Uh, 1344.232 1347.535 ... about the fact ... that, 1347.535 1348.744 ... in Israel, 1348.744 1351.140 ... where they have brought in, 1351.140 1353.185 ... thirty-thousand, 1353.185 1355.606 ... where do the dark ones come from, 1355.606 1356.521 JON: .. [Ethiopia]. 1355.706 1356.521 ALAN: [Ethiopia]. 1356.521 1358.079 (H) .. Uh=, 1358.079 1361.138 ... and five-hundred-thousand Russians. 1361.138 1364.157 .. Ha- .. very proud of the fact .. that they’ve been able to do this, 1364.157 1366.516 (H) in a country of five million people. 1366.516 1367.840 (H) Uh=, 1367.840 1368.736 ... which, 1368.736 1371.716 ... would devastate most countries. 1371.716 1372.315 I mean they, 1372.315 1373.074 ... uh, 1373.074 1373.880 JON: It’s ten percent. 1373.880 1374.751 ALAN: ... the, 1374.751 1375.782 ... and and the, 1375.782 1377.687 the Ethiopians in particular, 1377.687 1379.127 had a big march last week. 1379.127 1380.786 Because they’re second-class citizens. 1380.786 1382.156 The Jews look down on them too. 1382.156 1382.720 You know they got a, 1382.720 1383.543 (H) they got a, 1383.543 1384.146 they got a, 1384.146 1384.625 uh, 1384.625 1386.677 ... a class= situation, 1386.677 1387.521 they look different, 1387.521 1387.771 they -- 1387.771 1388.420 (H) And -- 1388.420 1390.484 Course they haven’t accepted the Russians too well either. 1390.484 1391.960 ...Uuh, 1391.960 1393.260 ... %although the, 1393.260 1394.031 the .. the Russians, 1394.031 1395.819 a high percentage of Russians are, 1395.819 1396.877 .. according to this article, 1396.877 1399.327 ... uh are .. scientists, 1399.327 1400.114 doctors, 1400.114 1401.485 ... engineers, 1401.485 1402.656 mathematicians, 1402.656 1403.816 ... and they -- 1403.816 1405.726 JON: Ed- educated the [difficult way]. 1404.860 1406.465 ALAN: [On areas] .. score, 1406.465 1408.396 score higher on the test than the, 1408.396 1410.133 than the .. th- the native-borns, 1410.133 1410.844 but there’s a big, 1410.844 1411.964 ... you know there’s a, 1411.964 1413.869 (H) the- the- there’s a, 1413.869 1415.661 there’s a there’s a class differential. 1415.661 1416.367 Which was interesting. 1416.367 1417.104 I I really, 1417.104 1419.513 (H) hadn’t thought about it in many years, 1419.513 1421.255 ... how those Blacks, 1421.255 1424.901 ... uh had .. integrated into the ci- society. 1424.901 1426.136 ... I am told, 1426.136 1427.071 I haven’t seen any of em, 1427.071 1427.719 but the Blacks, 1427.719 1429.310 th- they’re not like our Blacks. 1429.310 1429.526 [they’re], 1429.317 1429.771 JON: [No] no. 1429.771 1430.833 ALAN: ... Small, 1430.833 1432.284 you know smaller features, 1432.284 1432.864 but uh, 1432.864 1435.686 ... they are ... dark skinned, 1435.686 1437.042 ... and uh, 1437.042 1438.022 they look different X. 1438.022 1438.931 And uh, 1438.931 1441.659 ... I don’t know whether there are any other Black Jews over there, 1441.659 1442.317 .. but uh, 1442.317 1444.036 ... XXX -- 1444.036 1444.630 [XXX] -- 1444.036 1445.330 JON: [A lot from S]outh Africa, 1445.355 1447.462 but they’re well-educated people down there. 1447.462 1448.344 ... A lot of em. 1448.344 1449.960 ALAN: ... A lot of Jews from South [Afri-]. 1449.696 1450.254 JON: [Oh] yeah. 1450.254 1451.016 ALAN: (H) I’m s- -- 1451.016 1453.602 I know that this fellow ... Go=ldstone, 1453.602 1458.342 who was a head of this uh ... international war tri- crimes tribunal, 1458.342 1460.414 ... is a .. Jewish fellow, 1460.414 1462.752 because there was a picture of him in the paper with a yammaka on. 1462.752 1463.105 JON: Mm. 1463.105 1463.773 @@@ 1463.773 1464.761 ALAN: .. You [had to look close XX], 1463.844 1465.276 JON: [(H) Pretty good i]ndication, 1465.276 1466.284 ALAN: Pretty good indication. 1466.284 1467.724 JON: .. (H) [Well you know], 1466.964 1467.726 ALAN: [But uh], 1467.726 1469.001 JON: ... these % -- 1469.001 1469.646 .. These % -- 1469.646 1471.004 What astounds me is, 1471.004 1473.012 and this goes back into nineteen, 1473.012 1476.872 ... (H) (Hx) let’s see , 1476.872 1477.480 ... (Hx) 1477.480 1480.565 ... seventy-seven or something, 1480.565 1481.017 so this, 1481.017 1483.042 ... (H) this goes back, 1483.042 1484.999 ... oh further than that, 1484.999 1486.347 maybe nineteen-seventy. 1486.347 1488.519 ... (H) .. in % -- 1488.519 1489.281 in Houston, 1489.281 1489.862 ...