@UTF8 @Begin @Languages: eng @Participants: MONT MONTOYA Speaker, FRAN FRANK Speaker, MARI MARIA Speaker, RUBE RUBEN Speaker, LAUR LAURA Speaker, X X Speaker, RAMO RAMON Speaker, RACH RACHEL Speaker, CARO CAROLYN Speaker, MANY MANY Speaker, BEV BEV Speaker, GILB GILBERT Speaker @Options: CA, caps, bullets @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MONT|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|FRAN|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MARI|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|RUBE|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|LAUR|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|X|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|RAMO|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|RACH|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|CARO|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|MANY|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|BEV|||||Speaker||| @ID: eng|SBCSAE|GILB|||||Speaker||| @Media: 12, audio @Comment: American Democracy is Dying @Comment: University lecture, recorded in Riverside, California. This is a Chicano Studies class; the professor is the primary participant, although it is a small, summer school class, and nine members of the class occasionally interact. *MONT: What else . 0_2980 *MONT: (..) Politics deals with the question of power . 2980_7460 *MONT: right ? 7460_7860 *MONT: (..) That's the introduction to empowerment . 8060_9760 *MONT: (.) What is power . 9760_10710 *MONT: (..) Very quickly 10710_11950 come on 11950_12550 (..) all of you should know these two concepts 12550_14770 (.) they're not that difficult 14770_15950 (..) What is power . 15950_17230 *MONT: What are we talking about . 17230_18330 *FRAN: (.) Having the capacity to impact public policy . 18330_20620 *MONT: Alright . 20620_21180 *MONT: &=in So if we're talking about politics 21180_22890 politics is tied into the whole concept of power . 22890_25070 *MONT: right ? 25070_25580 *MONT: (..) And if we're talking about (.) empowerment as a concept 25580_28910 &=in we must have an understanding of the notion of what is power . 28910_32010 *MONT: &=in Now does (.) power come in one form 32010_34410 does it come in many different forms . 34410_36160 *MARI: (..) Different . 36160_36660 *MONT: (..) Different forms . 36660_37810 *MONT: (.) Back here . 37810_38610 *MONT: (..) What forms . 38610_39750 *MONT: (..) Give me examples of power . 39750_41830 *MONT: (..) Either one of you . 41830_45270 *RUBE: (..) &=laugh &=laugh ⌈ &=laugh ⌉ . 45270_45990 *LAUR: ⌊ &=laugh ⌋ . 45630_46050 *RUBE: (.) &=in Education 46050_47000 (..) know⌈ledge . 47000_48510 *MONT: ⌊ Alright 48050_48620 (.) knowledge ⌋ . 48620_49250 *RUBE: knowledge ⌉ . 48580_49190 *RUBE: MONTOYA (..) Okay 49240_50270 (.) what else . 50270_50780 *LAUR: (..) U:m . 50780_52230 *X: &{l=WH Money &}l=WH . 52230_52830 *LAUR: (..) u:m 52830_54430 (..) your (.) position in the workforce ? 54430_58850 *LAUR: (.) U:m . 58850_59170 *MONT: Okay . 59170_60160 *LAUR: &{l=X I'm trying to think of the word &}l=X . 60010_61030 *MONT: Alright . 61030_61670 *MONT: (..) Close . 61670_62270 *MONT: Right . 62270_62670 *RAMO: Wealth 62670_63230 (.) num⌈bers ⌉ . 63230_64050 *MONT: ⌊ Wealth ⌋ . 63640_64200 *RAMO: numbers of people . 64170_65120 *MONT: Numbers of people . 65120_66050 *MONT: (.) right ? 66050_66610 *MONT: (..) What else . 66610_68320 *FRAN: (..) Social status . 68320_70030 *MONT: (.) Social status 70030_71200 (.) position 71200_71860 (.) right ? 71860_72530 *MONT: &=in If you're the chairperson of u:m (.) a major corporation ? 72530_76280 *MONT: (.) would you say that that person (..) has some power ? 76280_78680 *FRAN: (..) Most definitely . 78680_80130 *MONT: (.) Alright . 80130_80530 *MONT: (.) Especially if you're &{l=X in uh &}l=X IBM 80530_82270 or General Motors 82270_83080 or (.) Chrysler ⌈ Corporation and ⌉ . 83080_85000 *RAMO: ⌊ I think in some ⌋ +/. 84440_85290 *RAMO: (.) some t- +/. 85290_85890 *RAMO: (.) some examples 85890_86710 some 86710_87070 (..) gender and race: 87070_88830 (..) can give you power . 88830_90040 *MONT: (..) Gender race 90040_92320 alright . 92320_92900 *RAMO: ⌈ Gender ⌉ +... 92860_93340 *MONT: ⌊ Let's deal ⌋ with that . 92900_93670 *MONT: (.) Alright . 93670_94130 *MONT: (.) Gender race . 94130_94810 *MONT: (.) Let's talk about &=in race 94810_96520 (.) in terms of power . 96520_97440 *MONT: (..) I:f I make the statement which I di:d 97440_100360 (.) that there's no fear factor 100360_101480 when it comes to: (.) the Chicano-Latino community 101480_103930 &=in and there is much more of a fear factor 103930_106550 (..) in dealing with the African-American community 106550_108730 (..) &=in am I not dealing with a racial factor of power ? 108730_111310 *RAMO: (.) ⌈ &{l=WH Yes: &}l=WH ⌉ . 111310_112160 *FRAN: ⌊ Sure ⌋ . 111560_112140 *MONT: Why . 112160_112490 *FRAN: (..) Because it's gonna affect 112490_116250 (..) the decision making process 116250_117620 (.) the politics 117620_118330 &{l=X and um 118330_119080 (..) ⌈ the policy &}l=X ⌉ . 119080_120080 *MONT: ⌊ Alright ⌋ . 119280_119850 *RAMO: (.) Africa- +/. 120080_121580 *RAMO: I:n u:m 121580_122550 (.) i- +/. 122550_122960 *RAMO: (.) Kinda like in pas:t 122960_124210 (.) African-Americans have been more organized 124210_125870 and have (..) had more leaders 125870_127830 &=in (.) or not more leaders 127830_129390 but who have more leaders who've been kn:own 129390_131260 or ⌈ something . 131260_131760 *MONT: ⌊ More recognized . 131360_132390 *RAMO: like Martin Luther King . 131760_132550 *MONT: (.) That's right ⌋ . 132390_133110 *RAMO: Yeah 132550_132710 more rec⌉ognized 132710_133480 and . 133480_133730 *MONT: (..) ⌈ Alright ⌉ . 133730_134230 *RAMO: ⌊ I think ⌋ that's a fear factor . 133980_135380 *RAMO: ⌈2 XX ⌉2 . 135380_135990 *MONT: ⌊2 That is ⌋2 a part of the fear factor . 135380_137040 *RAMO: (.) ⌈3 Mhm ⌉3 . 137040_137500 *MONT: ⌊3 &=in ⌋3 I mean uh 137040_138240 if (.) one looks at what 138240_139900 uh 139900_140220 Jesse Jackson is doing 140220_141560 vis a vis &=in (.) who . 141560_143430 *MONT: (..) The major league ? 143430_144360 *MONT: (..) Baseball teams and all that ? 144360_145970 *MONT: (.) Football: and all that ? 145970_147000 *MONT: (.) &=in What's his underlying argument . 147000_148730 *MONT: (.) What's his criticism . 148730_149740 *MONT: (..) That there're not (..) sufficient numbers of: (.) what ? 149740_154380 *FRAN: (..) Blacks . 154380_155780 *MONT: (.) Well he says minorities . 155780_156920 *MONT: (.) He's smart . 156920_157380 *MONT: He's talks about minorities . 157380_158490 *MONT: But he's really talking about African-Americans . 158490_160000 *FRAN: (..) In the uh 160000_161130 (.) managerial process ⌈ of ⌉ . 161130_162470 *MONT: ⌊ Right ⌋ . 162150_162480 *FRAN: (.) of (.) professional sports . 162470_163490 *MONT: Exactly . 163490_164190 *MONT: (..) Managerial 164190_165070 (..) owners 165070_165790 (..) managers 165790_166610 et cetera . 166610_167030 *MONT: right ? 167030_167390 *MONT: (.) Alright . 167390_168570 *MONT: &=ex Have you heard &{l=X of a Latino &}l=X say this ? 168570_170290 *MONT: (..) Or would a XXX Jesse Jackson have said that about Latinos ? 170290_173230 *MONT: (..) Hm ? 173230_175620 *MONT: (..) No . 175620_176140 *MONT: (..) &{l=X Unh-unh &}l=X . 176140_178600 *MONT: We haven't . 178600_179030 *MONT: (.) And uh we're gonna get into that 179030_180030 (.) in our discussion . 180030_180910 *MONT: (.) Alright . 180910_181280 *MONT: &=in So 181280_181890 (.) the whole notion of power is very important (..) to understand 181890_185310 because 185310_185810 here I am making some statements . 185810_187860 *MONT: Alright ? 187860_188330 *MONT: (..) Some generalities that some people would say are not true: . 188330_191410 *MONT: I mean how can &=in Doctor Montoya say that Latinos have no: 191410_194540 no real power 194540_195480 no fear factor 195480_196200 After all 196200_196870 &=in they have two people that are cabinet members 196870_199380 (.) they have &=in supervisor here in Los Angeles 199380_202120 they have city council people in Los Angeles 202120_204230 and yet he's saying that they have no power . 204230_206320 *MONT: (.) &=in Well power is relative (..) as well . 206320_209450 *MONT: right ? 209450_209800 *MONT: (.) It's relative . 209800_210400 *MONT: It's relational . 210400_211380 *MONT: (..) Power is relational . 211380_213050 *MONT: (..) How can you measure power . 213050_214920 *MONT: (..) Power is impossible to measure . 214920_217990 *MONT: (..) Alright ? 217990_218520 *MONT: (.) In other words 218520_219420 you cannot break power apart into vi- +/. 219420_221510 *MONT: &=in various ingredients 221510_223140 (.) and say 223140_224140 (..) A 224140_224750 (..) B 224750_225310 (..) C 225310_225990 (..) D 225990_226330 these are the ingredients of power . 226330_227680 *MONT: &=in (.) We can make generalities . 227680_229540 *MONT: (..) Position . 229540_231200 *MONT: (..) Wealth . 231200_231890 *MONT: (..) All these different things that I've talked about . 231910_233520 *MONT: &=in But power is difficult to measure . 233520_235960 *MONT: (..) So that 235960_237100 (.) we must deal with the whole question of empowerment 237100_239650 (..) from also the perspective of potential power &=in versus actual power . 239650_245010 *MONT: (..) There is a difference . 245010_246710 *MONT: (..) If I am 246710_248370 (..) for example 248370_249710 (..) the president &=in (.) of (.) a major labor union 249710_253830 (.) or a major corporation . 253830_255320 *MONT: (..) the position 255320_257290 (.) &=in as president of that entity 257290_259140 (..) gives me so much power . 259140_260850 *MONT: (..) But yet if I do not know how to utili:ze 260850_265270 (..) that entity in terms of its mobilization 265270_267550 &=in (.) for a given objective 267720_269280 (.) like a labor union . 269280_270300 *MONT: (.) If I have fourteen million people as members 270300_272380 &=in and I don't show any manifestation of power 272380_274720 am I powerful . 274720_275600 *MONT: (..) Well 275600_277000 (.) it has to be measured by what (..) you're trying to do . 277000_279860 *MONT: what the objectives are . 279860_281210 *MONT: (..) Example . 281210_283490 *MONT: (..) L:abor today 283490_285260 is being challenged by perhaps one of the most (..) serious (..) pieces (..) of +/. 285260_292300 *MONT: (..) not legislation per se 292300_294100 because it's not in a legislative form yet 294100_295780 &=in but 295780_296500 (.) a proposed North American Free Trade Agreement 296500_299290 (..) that if passed by Congress 299290_301580 (.) is going to impact (..) three economies . 301580_304960 *MONT: (..) Canada 304960_305540 (.) U_S 305540_306060 (.) and Mexico . 306060_306810 *MONT: (..) &=in L:abor 306810_308080 as a sector 308080_309190 (..) is going to be the most (.) impacted . 309190_311530 *MONT: (..) How is labor today (..) mobilizing (.) its great power . 311530_318240 *MONT: (..) Uh not just the AFL-CIO and its fourteen million members 318240_321730 &=in but the United Auto Workers 321730_323650 (.) and many other or- (.) labor organizations 323650_325470 (.) what are they doing . 325470_326190 *MONT: (.) to influence (.) public (.) policy . 326190_328430 *FRAN: (..) Combining power . 328430_329990 *MONT: (..) Huh ? 329990_330640 *FRAN: (.) They're combining their power . 330570_331730 *MONT: (.) How are they combining their power . 331730_333020 *FRAN: (.) By al- allying with other 333020_334520 (.) um 334520_335400 (..) &=tsk unions ⌈ &{l=X of workers &}l=X ⌉ . 335400_337090 *MONT: ⌊ Alright 336140_336520 they're they're they're ⌋ forming coalitions 336520_338490 (.) among themselves 338570_339430 they're forming coalitions with who . 339430_340800 *MONT: Environmental groups . 340800_341880 *MONT: right ? 341880_342370 *MONT: (..) Cause (.) environment supposedly is going to be also negatively impacted . 342370_346640 *MONT: (..) especially along the border . 346640_348150 *MONT: (..) Alright 348190_349070 (.) so there's- 349070_349470 (.) there's a lot of coalition building . 349470_351070 *MONT: (..) But can you say as a historian 351070_353620 (..) that labor is doing what they were infamous for doing thirty forty years ago ? 353620_357220 *MONT: (.) Taking ⌈ to the ⌉ streets ? 357220_358250 *FRAN: ⌊ No ⌋ . 357430_357830 *FRAN: No they've definitely lost power . 358250_359400 *MONT: (..) Alright 359400_360280 (.) good point . 360280_360930 *MONT: (.) They have +/. 360930_361390 *MONT: (.) He said 361390_362000 (.) they have lost power . 362000_363300 *MONT: &=in So your measurement (.) of a loss of power is based on what . 363300_366850 *FRAN: (..) What they can and can't X⌈XX ⌉ . 366850_369100 *MONT: ⌊ Alright ⌋ . 368670_369220 *MONT: (..) Alright . 369220_370250 *MONT: (..) You don't see 370250_371360 (..) what you've read about: . 371410_372440 *MONT: (..) right ? 372640_372990 *FRAN: (.) Right . 372990_373420 *MONT: (.) today . 373420_373770 *MONT: (.) Alright . 373770_374270 *MONT: (.) That's one perception . 374270_375220 *MONT: (..) Is the Black community less powerful today 375220_379840 (.) in nineteen-ninety-three 379840_380890 than it wa:s 380890_381820 &=in (..) in nineteen (..) sixty (..) eight . 381820_385450 *MONT: (..) with the poor people's march on Washington 385450_387890 &=in (.) or nineteen-sixty-three 387890_389500 (..) again 389500_390740 (.) on the w- uh: march (.) uh to Washington 390740_393220 (..) on Washington 393220_394560 (.) when Martin Luther King gave his &=in (..) famous speech 394560_397390 I have a dream . 397390_398230 *MONT: (.) There were three hundred thousand people . 398230_400130 *MONT: (..) at that march in nineteen-sixty-three . 400130_402140 *MONT: (..) Which (..) period (.) of time 402140_406330 historically speaking 406330_407380 &=in (.) was a time where Blacks were manifesting much more power . 407380_410670 *MONT: (..) Today 410670_413080 (.) or nineteen-sixty-three 413080_413890 or nineteen-sixty-eight . 413890_414730 *MONT: (..) When . 414730_416240 *RACH: &{l=X When they m- &}l=X manifest 416240_418100 they're beginning to get more power ? 418100_419550 *MONT: (.) ʔuh When uh 419550_420510 in in comp- +/. 420510_421000 *MONT: ⌈ in in +... 421000_421300 *RACH: ⌊ Now ⌋ ? 421160_421570 *MONT: When ⌉ do uh 421300_421920 &{l=X make &}l=X a comparison nineteen-ninety-three 421920_423500 &=in nineteen-sixty-eight 423500_424500 (.) nineteen-sixty-three 424500_425420 (..) during those three periods 425420_427490 (.) when 427490_428050 (.) would you say 428050_428920 (.) Blacks (.) demonstrated (.) much more power . 428920_431200 *RACH: (..) Now ? 431200_434000 *RACH: (..) They have more power now . 434000_435430 *MONT: (..) They have more power ? 435430_436300 *MONT: (.) Why do you say that . 436300_437100 *RACH: (..) Cause they're more recognized . 437100_439060 *RACH: (..) &{l=X I mean &}l=X . 439060_440260 *MONT: (..) &=in Does recognition give you power ? 440260_444330 *MONT: (..) Hm ? 444330_447120 *X: (..) &{l=P Yeah &}l=P . 447120_447970 *FRAN: (..) To a- +/. 447970_449540 *FRAN: (.) To some (..) aspects 449540_450840 yeah . 450840_451130 *FRAN: (..) I think 451130_452080 (.) I think the +/. 452080_452650 *FRAN: the problem with your question is 452650_453690 s- a different sort of powers . 453690_455090 *MONT: (..) Ah: . 455090_456390 *MONT: Very good . 456390_457410 *MONT: (.) Explain that . 457410_458090 *FRAN: (..) You have uh 458090_459920 (..) you have African-Americans more institutionalized 459920_462450 (.) in ⌈ our ⌉ system now . 462450_463450 *MONT: ⌊ &{l=X Ah &}l=X ⌋ . 462620_462820 *FRAN: (.) than they were in six⌈2ty-eight ⌉2 . 463450_464820 *MONT: ⌊2 Alright ⌋2 . 464560_464880 *MONT: Stop right there . 464880_465580 *MONT: (..) Today 465580_466830 (..) they have how many Congressmen ? 466830_468530 *MONT: (..) Thirty (.) eight . 468530_470760 *MONT: (..) Thirty (..) eight (..) congressional representatives . 470760_473900 *MONT: (..) I don't know how many they had in nineteen-sixty-three 473900_477100 I'm not even gonna try to guess 477100_478090 but uh probably &=in no more than two or three if they were lucky . 478090_480940 *MONT: (..) Alright . 480940_481800 *MONT: (..) Would you say that ? 481800_482470 *FRAN: (.) &{l=X I would say that's right &}l=X . 482470_483230 *MONT: Alright . 483230_483650 *MONT: (..) Go on . 483650_484600 *MONT: (..) What else . 484650_485280 *FRAN: (..) I:n sixty-eight 485280_486930 (..) the Blacks were a whole lot more (.) mobile . 486940_489100 *FRAN: (.) mobilized . 489100_489900 *FRAN: (..) Much better mobilized 489900_491060 (.) three-hundred-thousand marching on Washington 491160_493240 (.) is an example . 493240_494090 *FRAN: (..) You probably couldn't get that today . 494090_495480 *MONT: Okay . 495480_496190 *MONT: (..) Alright . 496190_497630 *RAMO: (..) &=COUGH . 497630_499260 *MONT: &{l=X You know with &}l=X Chicanos 499260_500160 the highpoint of the mobilization capability was nineteen-seventy . 500160_503150 *MONT: (.) During the: era of the Vietnam W:ar . 503150_505050 *MONT: (.) Twenty-five-thousand Chicanos were mobilized in Los Angeles 505050_508510 (..) ʔa- ʔat the national Chicano moratorium (.) against the war . 508510_511910 *MONT: (..) No one . 511910_514100 *MONT: (..) has come even close . 514100_515750 *MONT: (..) With the exception of the death of Cesar Chavez recently 515750_518760 &=in where there were approximately forty-thousand people 518760_521110 (..) to mobilize . 521110_522880 *MONT: (..) large numbers (.) of people 522880_525110 into some kind of a (..) effort or movement . 525110_527650 *MONT: (..) Alright . 527650_528610 *MONT: (..) &=in So he's correct . 528610_530180 *MONT: (..) It depends (.) on the time 530180_532580 (.) depends on the circumstances 532580_534020 &=in and the form of power . 534020_535440 *MONT: &=in Institutionalized power is different from 535440_537960 (..) the unconventional form that uh y- you just described . 537960_540790 *MONT: Alright . 540790_541290 *MONT: (.) &=in Well what we're trying to get at 541290_542660 (.) is potential (.) versus (.) actual . 542660_544870 *MONT: (..) My argument 544870_547370 (..) as humble as it is 547370_548970 (..) is that (.) Chicanos 548970_550820 (..) in nineteen-ninety-three 550820_552080 (.) are fast developing 552080_553890 (..) a high: (.) potential for power 553890_556740 (..) but they're a long way: from actualizing (.) their true power . 556740_560810 *MONT: (..) Okay ? 560810_562990 *MONT: In other words 562990_563510 they're- we're still at the: (..) potential phase of our empowerment 563510_566750 (.) and not at the actual power phase . 566750_568640 *MONT: (..) Alright . 568640_570400 *MONT: (.) Anything else ? 570400_571260 *MONT: (.) On: those two concepts ? 571260_572530 *MONT: (.) Alright . 572530_574170 *MONT: (..) Let's get into: (.) discussion on voter participation 574170_577500 and these are kind of general comments 577500_579400 (..) I don't have the time to give you a lot of statistics 579400_582110 (..) but I'll give you some: 582110_583520 (..) general uh: (.) trends 583520_586610 (.) some statistical information 586610_588140 &=in that will prove a point 588140_589610 &=in that will introduce the subject (..) of (.) political participation 589610_592920 &=in in the United States . 592920_594280 *MONT: (..) Now 594280_596470 a democracy 596470_598960 (..) the participation of the citizenry is imperative . 598960_603850 *MONT: (..) It is (..) absolutely imperative 603850_607460 (..) if it's to be a democracy 607460_608980 to have the people participate . 608980_610470 *MONT: &=in Now what am I trying to say . 610470_612740 *MONT: (..) What am I trying to say . 612740_614340 *MONT: (..) It is (.) imperative for the people to participate 614340_619290 (..) in the political process . 619290_621660 *MONT: (.) Another way of saying it . 621660_622610 *MONT: (.) What am I saying . 622610_623340 *CARO: (..) We have to vote 623340_629280 (..) &{l=X everyone &}l=X . 629280_630320 *MONT: (..) But why is it important 630320_632890 (..) in a democracy for the people to participate . 632890_635360 *MONT: (..) Just deal with the question . 635360_637520 *MONT: (..) Not the methods . 637520_638940 *CARO: (.) &{l=X You mean &}l=X becaus:e (.) if: (..) the people don't v:ote 638940_643100 (.) it will be: 643100_644090 (..) there will be an elite group 644090_646630 it'll be (.) m:ore of a (.) m:onarchy 646630_648670 (..) that has control 648670_650760 (..) ⌈ it won't be ⌉ a democracy . 650760_652310 *MONT: ⌊ Okay ⌋ 651270_651600 what's a monarchy . 652310_653270 *RUBE: (..) ⌊ Kings ⌋ . 653270_654600 *FRAN: ⌊ One ruler ⌋ . 654030_654600 *CARO: (..) Well ⌈2 one ⌉2 +... 654600_655440 *RUBE: ⌊2 Royalty ⌋2 . 655170_655880 *MONT: (..) What ? 655940_656600 *FRAN: ⌈ One ruler ⌉ . 656600_657840 *RUBE: ⌊ Royalty ⌋ 656910_657680 (..) ⌈2 or one family ⌉2 . 657830_658700 *CARO: ⌊2 XXXX ⌋2 . 657680_659320 *MONT: (.) Alright . 659320_659930 *MONT: (..) Close . 659930_660790 *MONT: (..) There's a royal (.) type of family right 660790_663900 (..) ⌈ king ⌉ . 663900_664490 *CARO: ⌊ Yeah ⌋ . 663900_664560 *MONT: (..) not elected 664560_665810 (.) alright 665810_666480 (..) hereditary 666480_667900 et cetera et cetera 667900_668680 (.) alright . 668680_669120 *MONT: (..) But what am I getting at . 669120_670540 *MONT: (..) ʔW- what's the: essence of what I'm asking for ? 670540_672770 *MONT: (..) Yes . 672770_673420 *MONT: (.) Fire away . 673420_674340 *RUBE: (..) By: (..) its very nature 674340_676640 (.) democracy demands (..) voting . 676640_679020 *RUBE: Without vo⌈ting XX ⌉ +... 679020_680090 *MONT: ⌊ Ah ⌋ . 679610_679960 *MONT: (.) Stop right there . 679960_680670 *MONT: (.) You made a statement . 680670_681350 *MONT: By the very nature of democracy . 681350_683490 *MONT: (.) &=in What is a democracy . 683490_685850 *RUBE: (..) Democracy is rule by the people . 685850_688050 *MONT: (..) Alright . 688050_688640 *MONT: (.) &=in &{l=L2 Demos (..) cratos &}l=L2 . 688640_690240 *MONT: right ? 690240_690590 *MONT: (..) ⌈ People ⌉ (..) rule . 690590_692110 *RUBE: ⌊ XX ⌋ ? 690830_691800 *MONT: Another Greek word . 692110_692970 *MONT: (.) The Greeks were (.) major contributors to this political process of development 692970_698400 (.) of concepts . 698400_699260 *MONT: &{l=L2 Demos (..) cratos &}l=L2 . 699260_701090 *MONT: People (..) govern 701090_702430 or people rule . 702430_703340 *MONT: (.) Alright . 703340_703910 *MONT: (..) We tell the world 703910_706170 (..) that democracy (..) is what (.) we practice . 706170_710980 *MONT: Is that correct ? 710980_711840 *MONT: (.) Is that what we tell the world ? 711840_713930 *MANY: (..) Yeah . 713930_714650 *MONT: Yes ? 714650_714990 *MONT: (.) Alright . 714990_715600 *MONT: Would you agree &{l=X with that &}l=X ? 715600_716150 *MONT: (.) Okay . 716150_716670 *MONT: (.) What else do we say 716670_718390 selling (..) our political system . 718390_721130 *MONT: (..) &=in In selling our political system 721130_724080 (..) we make it synonymous 724080_726280 (..) synonymous (.) by saying: that 726280_730550 (.) we don't distinguish 730600_731790 (..) the form of economic system 731790_734100 (..) versus the political system 734100_735930 &=in and that we put it in the same kettle . 735930_737790 *MONT: (.) &=in Democracy 737790_739150 (..) and capitalism 739150_740410 (..) are essentially the same . 740410_741840 *MONT: (..) Are they the same . 741840_743270 *FRAN: (..) No . 743270_743840 *MONT: (.) No . 743840_744410 *MONT: (..) But yet we do . 744410_745540 *MONT: (.) &=in A:nd 745540_747050 (.) if we: (.) listen carefully 747050_748810 (.) and read carefully 748810_750150 (..) a:ll these books on international relations 750150_752950 (..) foreign relations and so forth 752950_755160 (..) what is it that we tell the world 755160_757430 (.) that America is . 757430_758620 *MONT: (..) The cradle (.) of democracy . 758620_761180 *MONT: (..) We are the cradle of democracy 761180_763700 &=in we are the bastion of the free world 763700_766270 (..) et cetera et cetera et cetera . 766270_768320 *MONT: (.) And when &=in Ronald Reagan was in power 768320_771190 (..) we talked about the evil empire . 771190_773240 *MONT: right ? 773240_773630 *MONT: (.) &=in Categorizing 773630_775440 (..) uh: 775440_776060 the Soviet Union 776060_777070 (..) and the so-called Communist empire 777070_779470 as a evil empire . 779470_780710 *MONT: (..) Alright . 780710_782040 *MONT: (..) I say this because 782040_784280 &=in (.) there is 784280_785720 (.) a tendency for some of us to: believe 785720_788480 because 788480_789090 (.) we have been conditioned . 789090_790110 *MONT: right ? 790110_790800 *MONT: (..) Who conditions us to think the way we think . 790800_792810 *MONT: (.) What did we deci- +/. 792810_793410 *MONT: (.) What did we say . 793410_793980 *MONT: (.) earlier . 793980_794550 *MONT: (..) talking about culture . 794550_795840 *RACH: (..) Um 795840_798210 (.) they learn through (.) schools 798210_799770 (.) ⌈ &{l=X through their families &}l=X ⌉ . 799770_800880 *MONT: ⌊ Schools . 799770_800310 *MONT: right ⌋ ? 800310_801020 *MONT: (..) Schools . 801020_801740 *MONT: (..) The media . 801740_802400 *MONT: (.) Everything else . 802400_803260 *MONT: (.) &=in (.) I mean 803260_804030 (.) doesn't the media tell us that there's only a two-party system in this country ? 804030_807020 *FRAN: (.) Mhm . 807020_807920 *FRAN: (.) Mhm . 807020_807920 *FRAN: Why is it 807920_808670 (.) that the Communist Party 808670_809800 the Socialist Workers Party 809800_811020 the Prohibitionist Party 811020_812100 the American Independent Party 812100_813540 &=in (..) all these parties that we have 813540_815930 (..) supposedly minority parties 815930_817420 (..) don't get the same kind of treatment 817420_820210 (..) as the Democratic and Republican parties . 820210_822760 *FRAN: (..) They're not mainstream . 822760_824500 *FRAN: right ? 824500_824840 *FRAN: (..) We have a two-party system . 824840_826600 *FRAN: &=in We are taught from the very beginning that there's only two parties . 826600_830060 *FRAN: (.) That's a l- different subject . 830060_832980 *FRAN: (.) But I'm +/. 832980_833220 *FRAN: (.) What I'm +/. 833220_833460 *FRAN: The point I'm trying to make is that 833460_835400 (.) if we look (..) into the realities 835400_838040 (.) of what we have as a political system 838040_840410 (..) we tell the world 840410_842570 that in this country democracy is very much alive 842570_845190 because we ha:ve 845190_846150 a congress 846150_846870 we have 846870_847440 &=in a supreme court 847440_848530 (.) we have a presidency 848530_849710 &=in we have a political system: 849710_851410 that i:s 851410_852440 (..) governed by certain principles 852440_854790 (.) and law:s 854790_855850 &=in that emanate from what . 855850_857280 *FRAN: (..) The Constitution . 857280_858740 *FRAN: (..) which is a living document . 858740_860450 *FRAN: The Constitution . 860450_861410 *FRAN: right ? 861410_861850 *FRAN: &=in That is very much the document that protects 861850_864320 &=in conceptually and otherwise 864320_866110 (..) our way of life . 866110_867540 *FRAN: (.) Our democracy and so forth . 867540_869250 *FRAN: (..) Well 869250_869870 (..) if we remember (.) our Chicano history 869870_873010 (..) my point 873010_874190 as we get into the whole question of Chicano political participation 874190_877480 ʔis that 877480_878250 &=in (..) it's difficult 878250_880540 (.) for us as Chicanos 880540_882220 (.) as we get into it 882220_883430 (..) to understand 883430_885440 (..) why is it 885440_887360 (.) including ourselves 887360_888420 (.) because a lot of Chicanos don't even understand why we don't vote 888420_890930 (.) why don't we participate 890930_892160 (.) and they come up with all kinds of &=in somewhat superficial analysis 892160_895270 (..) that 895270_897070 (.) m:uch of our political behavior 897070_899480 (..) is a product of what (..) was covered in this class 899480_903080 (.) under history 903080_904070 &=in and culture 904070_904880 and what did I say . 904880_905760 *FRAN: (..) Two . 905760_907230 *FRAN: (..) major currents 907230_908640 (..) of history 908640_909900 (..) two (.) major currents of political culture 909900_913240 (..) right ? 913240_913900 *FRAN: And what is political culture . 913900_915330 *FRAN: (..) I'll get back to that concept . 915330_916880 *FRAN: But just (.) general terms . 916880_917910 *FRAN: (.) What is political culture . 917910_919340 *FRAN: (..) What is political culture . 919340_927600 *FRAN: (..) Alright . 927600_929990 *FRAN: (.) I want you to think +/. 929990_930890 *FRAN: Put that concept down 930890_931830 (.) because you're gonna +/. 931830_932270 *FRAN: you're gonna hear about it in the next few minutes . 932270_933830 *FRAN: (.) It's very important that you understand that concept . 933830_935400 *FRAN: Political culture . 935400_936170 *FRAN: &=in But I want +/. 936170_937200 *FRAN: (.) Thing I want to underline here 937200_939180 (.) is that 939180_939730 (.) we are products 939730_940900 &=in of a historical 940900_942690 (..) dualistic process 942690_944410 (..) Mexico's history 944410_945950 US history 945950_946870 &=in we're a pr- +/. 946870_947700 *FRAN: we're products of what ? 947700_949040 *FRAN: (..) A cultural process 949040_950730 that's also Mexican 950730_952040 (..) and American . 952040_952950 *FRAN: (..) Whatever American means . 952950_954060 *FRAN: Alright ? 954060_954480 *FRAN: (..) So those two major (.) ingredients 954480_957400 &=in have molded 957400_958560 the rationale 958560_959730 (..) that I'm using in this class 959730_961530 (.) to explain 961530_962590 (..) why is it 962590_963730 (..) that we're still 963730_964870 (..) at the potential phase of empowerment 964870_967070 (..) and we still 967070_968360 (..) have a long ways to go 968360_969910 (..) before we realize 969910_971450 (.) that concept that I describe 971450_973060 (..) called empowerment . 973060_974320 *FRAN: (..) &=in But before we get into that s- (.) substance of that 974320_978230 &=in is that 978230_979290 (..) I wanna just briefly cover 979290_981650 (..) that 981650_983220 (..) even though 983220_985780 (.) I'm saying that 985780_987120 (..) Chicanos do not vote in great numbers . 987120_989310 *FRAN: (..) And we don't participate in many organizations in great numbers . 989310_992450 *FRAN: &=in The fact is 992450_994090 (..) as I mentioned earlier 994090_995570 (..) that even though we tell the world 995570_998210 (.) we are this beacon of light 998210_999810 (..) of freedom 999810_1001270 (..) of liberty 1001270_1003010 (.) justice 1003010_1003580 and all these different things 1003580_1004810 &=in by and large 1004810_1006250 (..) not (..) a lot of people (.) participate (.) politically (.) across the board . 1006250_1013970 *FRAN: (..) I don't care if you're African-American 1013970_1016170 (..) I don't care if you're Asian-American 1016170_1018320 (..) and I don't care if you're Latino 1018320_1019660 or whatever . 1019660_1020630 *FRAN: (..) Most Americans 1020630_1022190 (..) do not vote 1022190_1023630 (..) in great numbers . 1023630_1025170 *FRAN: (..) So 1025170_1026360 (.) it's a double whammy . 1026360_1027590 *FRAN: (..) Introducing the subject matter here . 1027590_1029500 *FRAN: (..) Americans 1029500_1031060 in comparison to Great Britain 1031060_1032890 (.) in comparison to France 1032890_1034420 &=in in comparison to Germany 1034420_1036150 (.) in comparison to Italy 1036150_1037780 (..) we don't vote 1037780_1038920 (.) in the numbers that they do . 1038920_1040420 *FRAN: (..) Alright ? 1040420_1041970 *FRAN: (.) I mean 1041970_1042770 if we had more time 1042770_1043710 I could give you statistic after statistic 1043710_1045710 &=in Italy for example 1045710_1047120 ha:s (..) a voter (.) turnout 1047120_1049600 (..) of ninety percent . 1049600_1052130 *FRAN: (..) Of those that are eligible to vote . 1052130_1054820 *FRAN: (..) we're lucky if we get fifty percent . 1054820_1057210 *FRAN: (..) Are we (.) less democratic ? 1057210_1060320 *FRAN: (..) Are they more democratic ? 1060320_1061750 *FRAN: (..) Why is it that Italy has 1061750_1063950 &=in a much larger 1063950_1065190 (.) a higher voter (.) level of participation . 1065190_1067880 *FRAN: (..) Or Germany . 1067880_1070000 *FRAN: (..) Or even Canada . 1070000_1071540 *FRAN: (.) Seventy percent . 1071540_1072500 *FRAN: (..) The fact is 1072500_1074340 that democracy in this country (..) is dying . 1074340_1077430 *FRAN: (..) I want you to put that down . 1077430_1080760 *FRAN: (..) Cause it's gonna be important . 1080760_1082270 *FRAN: (..) At least for my analysis . 1082270_1083310 *FRAN: I don't want you to agree 1083310_1084110 or disagree at this point 1084110_1085100 just write it down 1085100_1086010 (.) &=in you have plenty of time . 1086010_1086960 *FRAN: (.) One week to think about it . 1086960_1088210 *FRAN: (..) American democracy is dying . 1088210_1092010 *FRAN: (..) I want you to put that (..) who:le (.) phrase (.) in black and white . 1092010_1097780 *FRAN: &=in American democracy is dying 1097780_1100690 (..) and I want you to try to think (.) of why . 1100690_1104120 *FRAN: (.) As we get into the discussion (.) of Chicano (..) participation . 1104120_1107750 *FRAN: (..) And we'll get back to that statement (.) next week . 1107750_1110290 *FRAN: (..) So 1110290_1112160 (..) for us 1112160_1113120 as Chicanos it's a double jeopardy . 1113120_1114730 *FRAN: (..) That's another point I wanna underscore . 1114730_1116730 *FRAN: (..) Because if the (.) larger general population doesn't vote in great numbers 1116730_1121480 &=in when you're at the bottom of a political socioeconomic totem pole 1121480_1124980 and you're at the bottom 1124980_1126440 (..) you're at the very bottom 1126440_1128820 (..) with all the problems of poverty 1128820_1131790 and all the social problems that we're +/. 1131790_1133310 *FRAN: &=in we've been talking about 1133310_1134690 (..) it's understandable why 1134690_1137720 (..) perhaps 1137720_1138390 (..) Chicanos do not vote 1138390_1140930 (.) or participate in great numbers . 1140930_1142590 *FRAN: (..) &=in Now 1142590_1143750 (.) the literature 1143750_1144600 (.) in political science 1144600_1147690 (..) dealing with 1147690_1149250 (..) factors influence- +/. 1149250_1151180 *FRAN: (..) influencing voting 1151180_1152480 (..) are many . 1152480_1153440 *FRAN: (..) Are many . 1153440_1156020 *FRAN: (..) Civic Culture 1156020_1160280 (..) Almond and Verba 1160280_1161440 (..) nineteen-seventy-two or so 1161440_1163250 (..) is one book that you can look at 1163250_1165320 (..) u:m 1165320_1166640 (..) there's a book by (.) Raymond Wolfinger 1166640_1169890 (..) Steven (..) Ronsteen- (.) Ronstone I'm sorry 1169890_1172280 &=in Who Votes 1172280_1173340 (..) that's another book 1173340_1174430 (..) &{l=X Okay &}l=X 1174430_1175770 (..) the literature goes on and on . 1175770_1177070 *FRAN: (..) But all I want to do 1177070_1178470 in terms of just giving you (.) some idea . 1178470_1180840 *FRAN: (..) of what are the factors that influence 1180840_1183330 peoples' participation in the political process of this country . 1183330_1186200 *FRAN: &=in And there are essentially five . 1186200_1187910 *FRAN: (.) You can (.) probably develop more 1187910_1189510 but 1189510_1189750 (.) these are general categories . 1189750_1191180 *FRAN: (..) Most of the literature in political science 1191180_1194570 (..) and I think Mister Verba would agree with me on this 1194570_1196750 &=in that 1196750_1197470 (..) people tend to vote because they have a sense of duty . 1197470_1201600 *FRAN: (..) What does that mean . 1201600_1202380 *FRAN: (.) A sense of duty . 1202380_1203560 *FRAN: (..) They regard participation as important . 1203560_1207310 *FRAN: (..) Now 1207310_1209990 (..) why would you say 1209990_1211920 (.) that this (.) is a factor that influences voting . 1211920_1214780 *FRAN: (..) Now this is a very somewhat altruistic 1214780_1217470 (..) uh: value . 1217470_1218580 *FRAN: right ? 1218580_1219020 *FRAN: (..) A sense of (.) duty ? 1219020_1220730 *FRAN: (..) Why . 1220730_1223890 *FRAN: (..) Why would you say 1223890_1226120 (..) that people in this country have a +/. 1226120_1227790 *FRAN: (.) Some ⌈ people that vote ⌉ . 1227890_1229010 *X: ⌊ &=COUGH &=COUGH ⌋ . 1228220_1229010 *MONT: (.) vote because they have a s:ense (.) of (.) duty . 1229010_1231650 *MONT: (..) Why . 1231650_1234010 *MONT: (..) Right here . 1234010_1237240 *BEV: (..) I don't know 1237240_1240360 (.) probably it stems m:ostly from: 1240360_1242470 (..) your education 1242470_1243880 your childhood 1243880_1244600 when your told 1244600_1245310 ʔuh (..) you're an American citizen 1245310_1246920 and it's your civic duty 1246920_1248350 (.) you know 1248350_1249210 &=in towards other people a:nd 1249210_1250640 you know 1250640_1251090 getting the government going 1251090_1252250 (.) to vote 1252250_1253010 a:nd 1253010_1253650 put you:r two cents in . 1253650_1255180 *BEV: (..) Because without you: 1255180_1256520 (.) then y- we won't have government . 1256520_1258120 *BEV: (..) Same sense of jury duty 1258120_1259610 too . 1259610_1260020 *BEV: (.) ⌈ &{l=X Jury ⌉ +... 1260020_1260860 *MONT: ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1260240_1260860 *MONT: (..) Good point . 1260860_1261520 *BEV: duty &}l=X . 1261520_1262190 *MONT: (.) As we go through some of these 1261940_1263680 (..) these five 1263680_1264590 (..) I want you to think of ʔthe agents of socialization . 1264590_1267130 *MONT: (..) Because then I want you to think 1267130_1268370 when we get into the discussion on Chicanos 1268370_1270160 (..) how do those agents affect (.) us as Chicanos . 1270160_1272270 *MONT: Alright 1272270_1272660 (..) number one 1272660_1274180 sense of duty 1274180_1275040 (..) Who is responsible for inculcating (..) that sense of duty . 1275040_1278180 *MONT: (..) One 1278180_1280630 (..) the family . 1280630_1281490 *MONT: (..) Alright ? 1281490_1282360 *MONT: (.) Remember . 1282360_1282830 *MONT: (.) The family is your primary agent . 1282830_1284530 *MONT: (.) Two 1284530_1285200 (..) the educational institutions . 1285200_1286840 *MONT: (..) I mean 1286840_1288690 from the time that you start (.) kindergarten 1288690_1290400 to the time that you (.) graduate from the university 1290400_1292840 &=in it's constant 1292840_1293800 (.) not constant 1293800_1294460 (.) but somewhat of a consistent (.) bombardment (.) of values 1294460_1297700 (.) attitudes 1297700_1298570 et cetera 1298570_1299340 (..) reinforcing the nature of the political system 1299340_1301830 (..) and the virtues (.) of (..) participating in the political process . 1301830_1306110 *MONT: (..) &=in So in essence 1306110_1307310 what I'm saying is 1307310_1307930 you acquire this through the socialization process . 1307930_1310230 *MONT: that we've discussed already . 1310230_1311370 *MONT: (..) Yes ? 1311370_1311940 *RUBE: (..) I think that it's more (..) eye-opening 1311940_1316540 (.) to see 1316540_1317400 (.) that 1317400_1318610 (.) this doesn't exist 1318610_1319850 (..) more than it does . 1319850_1320930 *RUBE: (.) And that's why people don't vote . 1320930_1322630 *RUBE: &=in It seems that 1322630_1323670 (.) I mean you talk to people 1323670_1325170 &=in they have an attitude 1325170_1326710 (.) I can't make a difference . 1326710_1328260 *RUBE: (..) That's why I don't vote . 1328260_1329470 *RUBE: (.) It's not (..) my (.) responsibility . 1329470_1332190 *RUBE: That's why I don't vote . 1332190_1333420 *RUBE: (..) There's not a sense of duty . 1333420_1334820 *RUBE: (.) Even though 1334820_1335680 (..) like you said 1335680_1336520 (..) from the beginning 1336520_1337660 (..) supposedly we're getting it (.) all through school . 1337660_1340230 *MONT: Why do you suppose that has changed . 1340230_1341830 *MONT: (..) And this is a (.) much 1341830_1343130 (..) of a recent phenomena . 1343130_1344310 *MONT: (.) much more . 1344310_1344970 *MONT: &=in Because you've had 1344970_1346060 &=in (.) declining voter participation levels: 1346060_1348270 since: the nineteen-seventies . 1348270_1350200 *MONT: (.) And I'm giving you the answer . 1350200_1351550 *MONT: (..) Wa- what what what has been the problem . 1351550_1354020 *MONT: (..) Contributing to what you (.) just said . 1354020_1356310 *RAMO: (..) Well 1356310_1358290 I agree- +/. 1358290_1358750 *RAMO: I agree with what he was saying but 1358750_1359880 (.) I think m- maybe one of the reasons could be 1359880_1361740 (.) they're not being represented 1361740_1362870 they don't think they're being represented 1362870_1364180 (.) they don't 1364180_1364640 (..) um 1364640_1365310 (..) see any like (.) direct results for them 1365310_1367980 (..) you know 1367980_1368640 coming out of like . 1368640_1369330 *MONT: Mhm ? 1369330_1369620 *RAMO: the representation 1369620_1370490 (.) the government 1370490_1371150 (.) and who's in control . 1371150_1372480 *MONT: (..) ⌈ Okay ⌉ ? 1372480_1373580 *RAMO: ⌊ I think ⌋ I +/. 1373430_1373820 *RAMO: ⌈2 I n- +... 1373820_1374080 *MONT: ⌊2 &{l=X That's ⌋2 +... 1373850_1374270 *RAMO: You know ⌉2 1374080_1374400 there are a ⌈3 lot of people ⌉3 . 1374400_1375010 *MONT: ⌊3 Sure &}l=X ⌋3 1374600_1374870 (..) ⌈4 alright ⌉4 . 1376010_1376840 *RAMO: ⌊4 &{l=X &{l=% I mean &}l=% &}l=X ⌋4 +... 1376170_1376750 *MONT: (..) That's +/. 1376840_1377100 *MONT: (.) ⌈ Would you agree with that ⌉ ? 1377100_1377810 *RAMO: ⌊ A lot of people ⌋ . 1377250_1377890 *MARI: (..) Mhm . 1377890_1378360 *RAMO: (.) they vote their ⌈ pocketbook ⌉ . 1378360_1379540 *MARI: ⌊ Sure ⌋ . 1378850_1379320 *RAMO: (.) They +/. 1379540_1379800 *RAMO: (.) They're +/. 1379800_1380160 *RAMO: ⌈ &{l=P They vote their pocketbook &}l=P ⌉ . 1379980_1381190 *MONT: ⌊ ʔuh They vote definitely ⌋ their pocketbook . 1380380_1381690 *MONT: Alright ? 1381690_1382080 *MONT: (.) That's true . 1382080_1382540 *MONT: (..) What would you add to ⌈ f- ⌉ . 1382540_1383540 *RAMO: ⌊ &=ex ⌋ . 1383330_1384070 *MARI: (..) Well 1384070_1384940 (..) you say we're not represented 1384940_1386450 it's like 1386450_1386770 we say there's not much choice 1386770_1388080 (.) between 1388080_1388650 (..) say like (.) the last 1388650_1390160 (..) um 1390160_1390930 (..) you know 1390930_1392280 (..) &{l=X you &}l=X voted for (..) Clinton or 1392280_1394150 (..) you know 1394150_1394810 (..) you know 1394810_1395570 (..) whatever his name was . 1395570_1396300 *X: (.) &=laugh &=laugh . 1396300_1396720 *X: &=laugh . 1396720_1397010 *MARI: &=laugh &=laugh . 1397010_1397300 *MONT: Bush . 1397300_1397740 *MARI: ⌈ &=laugh &=laugh ⌉ . 1397720_1398380 *GILB: ⌊ XX ⌋ . 1397590_1398380 *MARI: ⌈2 Yeah ⌉2 . 1398380_1398920 *MONT: ⌊2 Bush ⌋2 in a ⌈3 bush ⌉3 . 1398520_1399210 *X: ⌊3 &=laugh &=laugh ⌋3 . 1398860_1399200 *GILB: X . 1399200_1399500 *MARI: (.) ⌈ No . 1399500_1399900 *GILB: ⌊ I don't think ⌋ +... 1399650_1400290 *MARI: the other guy ⌉ . 1399900_1400400 *GILB: (.) I don't think ⌈2 there's as ⌉2 much ⌈3 trust ⌉3 . 1400400_1402140 *MONT: ⌊2 Oh ⌋2 1401170_1401560 ⌊3 Perot ⌋3 . 1401660_1402250 *GILB: (.) XX . 1402250_1402980 *MONT: Trust . 1402980_1403570 *GILB: Trust in the system . 1403570_1404390 *MONT: (.) ⌈ Why ⌉ . 1404390_1404760 *GILB: ⌊ A lot ⌋ more corruption 1404520_1405460 ⌈2 &{l=X I mean &}l=X ⌉2 you had Nixon . 1405460_1406490 *MONT: ⌊2 Why ⌋2 . 1405470_1405760 *GILB: &=in to ⌈3 Watergate ⌉3 . 1406490_1407750 *MONT: ⌊3 What did you have in the ⌋3 seventies . 1407120_1408120 *MONT: (.) Now l- let's talk about that . 1408120_1409100 *MONT: What what did +/. 1409100_1409440 *MONT: What did +/. 1409440_1409720 *MONT: ⌈ What did ⌉ we have . 1409720_1410360 *GILB: ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1409690_1410030 *MONT: (.) &{l=X You &}l=X +... 1410360_1410540 *GILB: Well 1410540_1410830 (.) in the beginning 1410830_1411470 (.) well even in the late sixties you had Vietnam 1411470_1413480 (..) ⌈ you had uh: ⌉ . 1413480_1414920 *MONT: ⌊ Good . 1413900_1414490 *MONT: (.) Excellent ⌋ . 1414490_1414970 *MONT: &=in What did Vietnam do . 1414970_1416000 *GILB: (..) ʔuh (..) Turned uh 1416000_1419630 (..) the youth especially 1419630_1420820 against (.) the government policies 1420820_1422550 (.) the: educated youth . 1422550_1423640 *GILB: (..) More so 1423640_1424500 &=in and those were 1424500_1425440 (.) I think 1425440_1426200 (..) the people that were gonna be voting 1426200_1428240 (..) as they went on . 1428240_1429520 *GILB: They lost faith in the system . 1429520_1430630 *GILB: ⌈ They lost ⌉ faith in thei:r leaders . 1430630_1432180 *MONT: ⌊ Alright ⌋ . 1430650_1431140 *MONT: (.) Alright . 1432180_1432800 *MONT: (..) On that score . 1432800_1434340 *MONT: (..) would you say that most of you 1434340_1436230 without getting personal here 1436230_1437370 are products: 1437370_1438340 (.) uh: 1438340_1438610 in terms of birth 1438610_1439600 (..) of the sixties ? 1439600_1440190 *MONT: (..) All of you were born in the sixties ? 1440190_1441660 *MONT: (..) Early seventies ? 1441660_1442520 *MONT: (..) Right ? 1442520_1443680 *MONT: (..) So that means that most of your parents . 1443680_1445850 *X: (..) &=THROAT . 1445850_1446520 *MONT: were very much a part (.) of the era of the sixties . 1446520_1448600 *MONT: right ? 1448600_1448890 *MONT: (..) Alright . 1448890_1450070 *MONT: Would you say 1450070_1450930 (..) go back to you 1450930_1451760 (..) that your parents were very much influenced by the Vietnam war ? 1451760_1454890 *MONT: (..) One way or the other ? 1454890_1455800 *GILB: (..) Yeah . 1455800_1458180 *MONT: (..) Which +/. 1458180_1458990 *MONT: (.) Which way . 1458990_1459450 *MONT: (.) ⌈ Which direction ⌉ . 1459450_1460260 *GILB: ⌊ Um: ⌋ 1459550_1459940 (..) total apathy . 1460260_1461420 *MONT: (..) Total apa⌈thy ⌉ . 1461420_1462580 *GILB: ⌊ Yeah ⌋ . 1462150_1462590 *MONT: (.) Why . 1462590_1462960 *GILB: (.) Um 1462960_1463530 (.) well my mom . 1463530_1464470 *GILB: (.) Total apathy . 1464470_1465180 *GILB: Uh 1465180_1465520 (..) She just 1465520_1468330 (.) I th- +/. 1468330_1468820 *GILB: (.) I don't know . 1468820_1469080 *GILB: (.) I think she just got burned out . 1469080_1470270 *GILB: She got sick and tired of 1470270_1471380 (..) you know 1471380_1472090 turning on the news 1472090_1472730 and seeing another (..) corrupt man 1472730_1474240 or another 1474240_1474910 (.) you know . 1474910_1475370 *GILB: (.) another scandal breaking out . 1475370_1476800 *GILB: (..) She knew friends that were dying in Viet- +/. 1476800_1479310 *GILB: (.) you know . 1479310_1479570 *GILB: She had friends that (..) were drafted 1479570_1481420 XX were sent 1481420_1481980 (.) were dying 1481980_1482540 and she didn't 1482540_1483200 (..) you know 1483200_1483950 she didn't believe in the system and 1483950_1485460 (..) she just didn't care anymore . 1485460_1487370 *GILB: (..) ⌈ I think ⌉ it was just a lot of negatives had built up . 1487370_1490230 *MONT: ⌊ Okay ⌋ . 1488700_1489140 *GILB: and she just (..) let it go . 1490230_1492030 *MONT: (..) Okay 1492030_1492650 how about you . 1492650_1493360 *MONT: (..) How about your parents . 1493360_1494390 *CARO: (..) U:m 1494390_1495510 (..) well my dad was drafted . 1495510_1497420 *MONT: (.) He was in Vietnam ? 1497420_1498850 *CARO: (..) U:m 1498850_1499920 (..) long story 1499920_1501030 he didn't make it to Vietnam but 1501030_1502130 u:m 1502130_1502420 &=laugh ⌈ &=in ⌉ . 1502420_1503150 *MONT: ⌊ But he was ⌋ in the military ⌈2 during that time . 1503150_1504660 *CARO: ⌊2 He was in the military at the ⌋2 time . 1503900_1505400 *MONT: (.) Alright ⌉2 . 1504590_1504960 *CARO: (.) yeah . 1505400_1505790 *MONT: Okay . 1505790_1506080 *CARO: (.) My mom claims she was too young to know 1506080_1507840 but 1507840_1508280 (..) &=laugh &=laugh &=laugh &=in &{l=@ I don't know &}l=@ . 1508280_1509970 *MONT: Okay . 1509970_1510560 *CARO: (..) Um 1510560_1512980 (..) I don't know how my dad r:eally felt about it 1512980_1516790 (.) I know: 1516790_1517650 (.) we come from a long line of military men 1517650_1519810 (.) so he kind of felt a sense of duty 1519810_1521870 (..) so 1521870_1522440 (..) ʔuh (.) um . 1522440_1524550 *MONT: (..) Was there a sense of betrayal ? 1524550_1526750 *CARO: (..) Possibly 1526750_1532740 yeah . 1532740_1533030 *MONT: Mhm . 1533030_1533520 *CARO: X . 1533520_1533810 *MONT: Okay . 1533810_1534200 *MONT: (..) Who else . 1534200_1535540 *MONT: (.) Who wants +/. 1535540_1535910 *MONT: Who else wants to share something here 1535910_1537260 (.) about what we're trying to say . 1537260_1538260 @End